Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:40:46 -0700
Reply-To: Jim Ellis <ellisjames@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Ellis <ellisjames@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Vanagon Virtues and Type 2 contrasts( was ahhh..
In-Reply-To: <OE22Gtroj0xJAH6AvFZ000033e0@hotmail.com>
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ellis replies to what warmerwagen@hotmail.com wrote:
> Vanagon Virtues and Contrasts to the Type 2 Here Extolled:
>
> The 67 Westy is almost everything you say when it's used for camping or
shows.
> The picture changes dramatically when you use it for a daily driver and long
> distance driver and do this for seven years. Or maybe I was just having seven
> years of bad luck?
>>It depends. The 67Westy that I have for sale has had every piece/aspect of
the bus completely disassembled and properly replaced or repaired. I have had
nearly no problems past the original shake down cruise to Tucson in March 97.
After that trip I installed a hard start relay. Yes, it has been used for
camping and shows but has cruised from Phoenix to Seattle, keeping up with the
Gene Berg Cruise II and still won Best Camper, All Years at the Vintage Meet.
The bus was built for my wife who has used it as a reliable daily driver in
Phoenix, which is likened to Los Angeles but with 110F degree weather. On the
otherhand I had a 1963 bus that I drove as a daily driver and did a "rolling
resto" to it and experienced every possible break down known in the splitty
drivers handbook.
> The Vanagon list is primarily composed of members who drive Vanagons.The
> Type 2 list is a safe haven from the raging Vanagon storm that could arise
> due to claims that the Vanagon is inferior to the Type 2 directed to the
> Vanagon list.
>> True, no argument. You preach the truth but it's more fun to create flame
bait about Air vs Water on the Vanagon list. Besides, it's mid-Summer and all
lists get boring without occassional faux arguments. ;-)
>
> Door handles that break after twenty years are most common with the long
> handled 80-84 Vanagons.
> Correct me if I am wrong about the year change to short handles. Short
> handles rarely break. Replace your long handle Vanagon sliding door handle
> with the shorter stronger later style.
>> I've broken handles on splitties and Vanagons. Basic fact is that schtuff
happens and then you repair it.
> Vanagon Dashboards don't have a problem with cracking from the sun. The 87
> Wolfsburg I have is from Arizona.
> I've seen many a cracked vinyl dash on the 68-79 Busses.
>>Agreed but it got a rise out of you and everyone knows that '68-'79 buses are
for fat chicks who can't belly up to splittie buses or afford to maintain the
leaking, electrically lurching Vanagons.
> I haven't had to change the coolant pipes end to end yet on my 82, but if I
> do soon-well, they lasted twenty years!
>> Coolant pipes on an 82? Radiator in an aircooled 2.0L? Sweet!
> Head gaskets leaking- yes- this is the main reason so many Vanagon owners are
> converting over to more reliable engines. Some have had phenomenal longevity
> and have seen over 150,000 leak -free miles on the original though. Aside
> from this, it has two to three times the life of a air-cooled engine. None of
> my air-cooled engines , all new or rebuilt, ever made it to 100,000. WBX
> engines can get twice that.
>> Some girl friends last years others wear out over night. It all depends on
the level of maintenance and how you drive them.
> They have more power, are quieter, and have less maintenance. Some air-cooled
> enthusiasts have adopted the WBX case to build a superior air-boxer motor.
> leaking head gaskets are indeed the exception and not the rule when it comes
> to the head gasket leak problem.. My engine , a inline four, rarely has this
> problem. Your air-cooled engine is more likely to burn up at 50,000 before
> mine blows a head gasket at 150,000.
>> See my last comment. Part of the factor is the environment.
> Other than engines that VW should have improved or replaced, the Vanagon has
> these improvements over the old pre-67 bus:
>
> 1.suspension- no gear reductor boxes to fill with gear oil or rebuild.
>>Syncho VC repairs = $1000. ReducTION boxes cost less to rebuild and 90wt is
cheap. Ya gotta maintain your ride.
> 2.No more grease fittings (the old bus has nine).
>> What is a Saturday with out laying on your back with your favorite grease
gun in your hand? Ya gotta keep it lubed to stay happy! =)
> 3.Better ride and handling , especially with power steering (84 and up) .
>> Dancing with big boned girls and truck drivers keep you strong. Plus it all
depends on how much feel of the road you like and how it's all set up.
> Handles better in wind, and aftermarket suspension products are available.
> Try finding new suspension and steering parts for the old busses- and when
> you find them you won't like the prices.
>>They are available and you are right about the prices. To a short man 6'4"
and 6'8" are both TALL.
> Front disc brakes- self adjusting brakes, power brakes. Vanagons are know for
> their very strong braking system.
>>Constant manual adjustment of your brakes makes you more familiar with your
vehicle and keeps you on your toes. I prefer having faith in my abilities than
having faith in a service tech of whom I have no knowledge.
> Wheel bearings are stronger, last longer.
Environment, usage and maintenance. See the comment above about the nine grease
zerk fittings.
> I have removed and replaced almost every part of my 64 and 65 busses.
>> Ah, so we do have something in common! =)
> I have done this on Vanagon also. It is easier to work on a Vanagon than a
> Bus.
>> If you say so...
> When we want to do a rear brake shoe replacement, we don't need a 1 inch
> braker bar and a 46 mm socket to stand on - the drum removes by loosing a 13
> mm bolt.
>>Huh, one little old 13mm bolt to retain the drum vs. a big-old castellated
nut with a cotter pin through it. Hmmm... one of those sounds under engineered!
> I recently removed a 67 bus trans- much easier to remove a vanagon trans
> because the engine can remain in the vehicle. It's also easier to move
> areound the shop having no heavy axles and reduction boxes attached.
>> What, you dont like Chiropractors? ;-)
> Now consider the roominess of the Vanagon compared to the Type 2.
> And the Westfalia design is second to none most would agree.
> Better visibility, more leg room, head room.
>> I've seen more heads in a splittie than in Vanagons. Just hold it low and be
cool... <kidding>
> How then does the Type 2 excel ? It's number one on classic style and
> appearance- especially if it has had about $25,000 invested to restore it
> from a rusted out hulk to a show and road worthy vehicle. I saw some nice
> ones on the road last weekend.
>> I'd love to show you my '67. There is plenty of "typical rust" relics being
passed off as starting point builders but you dont have to start there.
$25,000. is an exaggeration unless you factor in the alimony and child support
that usually results by the time you finish the "resto". It's better and
cheaper in the long run just to buy mine and call it good. Your S.O. will love
you for it. Just tell him/her that you had the best interest of the
relationship in mind when you bought my bus...
> Sometimes I wish I still has this vehicle with "soul". Then I remember how I
> wore out the soles- on my shoes from walking miles telephone.
>>Plan ahead, prepare the vehicle correctly in the first place and you should
minimize the sole-brother action.
> The cell-phone connected generation never had it so good.
>>Amen, brother! The Chambers Brothers, Blue Cheer, Jesse Colin Young and Tom
Rush still sound better on 8-tracks.
> And you have your A.I.R.S. who'll rescue you when you are ineveitably
> stranded somewhere.
>> Call AAA and then AA. hahaha
> If you had my luck you went thru 3 engines, a trans, suspension, gear
> reductor boxes, swing lever bushings, clutch , accelerator, and heater box
> cables, Shift lever bushings, wheel bearings. It was a constant weekly repair
and maintenance project that lasted seven years. That's because I can do all
my own maintenance.
>> Whelp, some people know how to turn a wrench and others just own tools and
talk smack. Call me if you need some help...
> If you don't have these skills and own a Type2- that says that you can afford
mechanics, and your car spends equal time between you and the shop.
>> Fat Chicks...
> The day that the Vanagon is in the Smithsonian is when we are all driving the
> "new" Vanagon in 2015. By then the new Microbus will be an old car.
>>Hahhaha... The day that the Vanagon is in the Smithsonian is the day that
museum's curator joins Robt. Downey Jr. in rehab.
> So I have made a case in the defense of the stronger WBX case and the best
> vehicle VW ever designed , the Vanagon.
> I now rest my case. Figuratively speaking.
>> More like relatively speaking...
-Ellis
67 Westfalia
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