> Gawd, what absolute bullshit! There's no comparison between the amerikan >crappola detroit garbage and the wonderful Japanese and German offroad >stuff. You really think ford makes a decent product on any scale? I feel for >you, guy. Have you even looked at the German and Austrian 4wd >products? And, in >fact, that's what US forces are using in Europe -- not ferds, not humvees.

Germans don't make any serious offroaders, Geklandewagen and RangeRover perhaps excepted. The Mercedes M-Class is an upmarket Rav-4 competitor and hopeless offroad, but then, it's not designed for serious offroading... more a "soft-roader". The BMW is similar, though somewhat less incapable in the rough, and like other BMWs is only designed for about a 6-year life.

LandRovers and RangeRovers are rubbish which fall apart... like all british cars.

That leaves the Japanese as the only option... and of these, only Toyota is really reliable long-term. But these all seem to have bloated and gone for electric-everything. What happened to the basic old "Jeep-style" LandCruiser option of the 50s-80s?

The T3 Syncro may be surprisingly capable, but it's been out of production for 12 years.

> There's no such thing as an amerikan made "good" vehicle. If it's designed >here and/or built here, it's pure crap. Even VW's built here are crap compared >to the German product.

Seconded! -- Andrew Grebneff 165 Evans St, Dunedin 9001, New Zealand <andrew.grebneff@stonebow.otago.ac.nz> Seashell, Macintosh, VW/Toyota van nut