Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:39:54 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Not passing smog, still... Need help!
In-Reply-To: <FCEEIGDOKPNNIFBPGKDJOECECOAA.steven@epochdesign.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You have spent a lot of time and effort tampering with a fuel injection
system that did not have a problem. Now things are so far out of range
the ECU can't compensate and control the mixture properly. Excessive HC
is caused by a combustion or leakage problem. Excessive CO is caused by
insufficient oxygen. The low compression in cylinder #4 says you have a
leakage problem and possibly a combustion problem. This cylinder problem
will also cause an imbalance in the engines air flow that will cause the
other cylinders to run with different mixtures as the fuel delivery can
not compensate for cylinder air flow imbalances. You have an engine
problem. Get a leak down test to find out if it is a bad valve or
cylinder. If the repairs are more than you want to bear, then get the
one year exemption so you can continue driving legally.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Dodson
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 8:34 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Not passing smog, still... Need help!
Guten Tag,
Here's a quick update and a couple more questions...
Without going into too much detail, the O2 sensor seems to be
functioning
fine.
I did patch the small exhaust leak, OK. Did the Techron and MMO
treatment.
Checked the throttle switch, OK. I have performed the test and
adjustments
for the idle/C0 per Bentley and M. Keller (sort of a mix between the
two).
Trouble now is I can't get the O2 reading to level out. It's bouncing
around
way too much, sometimes the full spectrum. I can control the O2 and
idle. I
can run it high, I can run it low, but it won't stay in the sweet spot.
The
average range is .05-.74. This seems too big. If I run it at 3000rpm the
lowest reading I can get is .72VDC. This seems too high.
Is it looking more like the injectors now, or am I just breathing too
many
exhaust fumes?
I'm going to blow them out one more time and run the test to see if
there's
any change.
By the way, since the adjustment, it does seem to be running a lot
smoother.
Any thoughts?
-Steven Dodson
Kneeland, CA
"Inga" the 87 Syncro
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of G. Matthew Bulley
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:55 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Not passing smog, still... Need help!
Did you run the MMO as described? If your compression is off you may
have a filty ring.
All of this goes back to the bottom line I said before: If your cat is
new (as you said) and all the adjustments are correct (timing, etc.) and
your air filter, oil, and fuel are clean, and if you have REPLACED YOUR
OLD O2 SENSOR, there is no reason for you not to pass smog unless your
motor is completely toasted, *(which your compression numbers do not
bear out.
Run the MMO. Replace the O2 sensor. GO PASS SMOG, and move on to more
interesting pursuits, like adding scoops to the sides of your van.
Developing business and guiding change since 1996,
G. Matthew Bulley
Bulley-Hewlett
Marketing & Communications
Business: www.bulley-hewlett.com
AIM = IExplain4u
Phone: +1.919.658.1278
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
Of Steven Dodson
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:17 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Not passing smog, still... Need help!
Danke, Her Keller!
The compression test today showed might fine compression in all but #4.
#1=130, #2=128, #3=132 and #4=98-100 (hard to call). With a few shots of
oil
into the cylinder, #4 blossomed to a whopping 132, must be a ring
problem.
Is the ~100psi good enough for now? I'm not trying to be cheap here, but
as
I've mentioned before, I plan to do a Diesel conversion and don't want
to
dump a bunch of money into this WBX.
I will do this spring tension adjustment as well as a CO and idle
adjustment
per Lord Bentley.
A List member said to adjust CO to .5V, when Bentley says .7V. Thoughts?
Any
input on which to perform first?
I think I need to blow out the injectors again, since I changed the fuel
filter. Syncro fuel filters are in the worst (dirt catching) place. I
should
do this before doing anything above. Ja?
-Steven Dodson
Kneeland, CA
"Inga" the 87 Syncro
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Mark Keller
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 4:49 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Not passing smog, still... Need help!
Steve,
It seems more to be your basic engine fuel injection is just out of
adjustment. I call this depending on the O2 sensor. I'm just taking a
midday break, and you may have solved this by now, but I wrote recently
on how to set up the spring tension on the AFM.
The other issue that hadn't been addressed as of my following the
thread, is that an oil change is helpful, as fuel can be present there.
If your still not below the idle HC, then read my posts on adjusting the
basic fuel injection with a digital voltmeter and the O2 Sensor
disconnected and your van should be a go. I've added it below as it was
orginally for another topic
Sincerely,
Mark Keller
Adam,
Probably a mis- adjusted fuel injection system. My 91' behaved this way
too. In fact my wife wouldn't drive it because of the "lag" from when
you hit the throttle to when something actually happened.
Any way I solved it by doing the air flap AFM adjustment that deals with
spring tension. I wrote about last year, archives should have it
For the best result consider, double checking the timing, and vacuum
hose connections, some vans screw up the pressure regulator and
distributor hose connection and they come from different sources. Also
cleaning the wiper arm on the AFM , beneath the black cover. The cover
is off for this whole procedure.
Check again the following that the idle and WOT switch is functioning
unplug at the connector and with the engine off , just read the ohms as
you operate the throttle. Should be continuity at full closed and full
open. I think a .005 th feeler gauge at the idle stop screw is the
tolerance, i.e. it should stay continuity until the throttle is open
that far. The adjustment is the two allen screws below the throttle
body housing. ONe locks the adjusting mech in place, loose it, the
other makes the adjustment.
If you want to skip all of this cause you have tinkered with it in the
past proceed, otherwise consider doing it. Also if you email me, I'm on
digest, I work with you to getting your van nice and snappy off the
line.
In case the archives don't suit you at the moment here is the main idea
is:
Go open loop , i.e. disconnect the O2, connect a digital Voltmeter to
the O2 black lead on a long wire, I used microphone cable, so that you
can view the mixture in volts while driving. The test target is to have
.5 volts or so at 3000 Rpm plus while driving, steady cruise, level-ish
ground etc. yes is will move around some but it will stay relatively
stable enough for you to determining whether the system is general lean,
.4 volts or less or rich .6 volts or higher. The values for the O2 Seem
to be .3 and .7 volts. The best lean of .15 and best power of .86 are
targets taken form Probst Book on Bosch Fuel injection., keep your
level cruise target to .5 or .6 volts. The injection system has a curve
built into it for acceleration and deceleration and the vacuum to the
pressure regulator is what keeps it all happy.
Adjustment is by changing the spring tension on the AFM flap. No need
to remove the wire gizmo that locks the gear in place, just lift up the
wire, move the gear, I THINK it was CCW 10 teeth for mine, put reference
scratch on you starting position.
This takes a tweaking or spiral engineering, to close in on a good
setting. BTW, I was extremely pleased with how well the open loop fuel
injection system control the mixture, in fact the Van runs better, but
the O2 is needed to protect the Cat for getting an over rich mixture and
melting should something go wrong during normal operation. YOu might as
well locate a hill, and then go up at 4400 RPM and see if the fuel pump
/ pressure regulator keep you mixture at above .5 volt during the
climb. This test the system for a possible lean out, when you really
need a power mixture, A. cooling, B. Power. Anything below the .3
mixture is unacceptable. If the spring tension is giving good mixture
at all other driving condition with the EXCEPTION of a full power WOT
hill climb of at least a minute or so, then I would look at the fuel
deliver system, pump and or regulator. Keep in mind this is done
without the O2 sensor connected to anything but the Volt meter.
Anyway, Having done that, go back home and set your basic idle at 840
Rpm, idle motor disconnected at it's plug. Use the large flat head
screw on the throttle body, putting a dot on the screw and the body for
reference before beginning helps keep your orientation.
Idle air bypass adjustment- Next remove the 10 mm or plug on the top of
the AFM, mine had been done before so there was already a 7/64 ths dia..
hole there to screw a #8 sheet metal screw into. Do that, wiggle the
thing out. Get a 6 mm allen wrench, put some 3M body caulk around the
wrench, as an air gasket, I just leave my in instead of replacing the
plug. Ok all of that was so you could look at the voltmeter and adjust
the Idle air bypass screw. Again look for .5 volt, yes it will float
around, but it should hang between .3 and .7 volts
Of course once the IDLE Air by pass is set, the idle will be off some,
re adjust the idle screw, now the idle bypass screw, until they both are
at the target setting.
Go back out and drive the van and your throttle response should be
amazing!!!
Sincerely,
Mark Keller
91 Carat