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Date:         Sun, 1 Sep 2002 02:17:17 +0100
Reply-To:     Clive Smith <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Clive Smith <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fire Extinguishers
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bug engine cases. Is this VW Beetles?

What are vanagon engine cases - not mag ally I presume. What are vanagon transmission cases made of?

Clive

'spect we'd get locked up for that over here - but then reading the 'Burning Man' web link about how dangerous burning magnesium is - perhaps understandably. Makes one realise what absolute hell was unleashed on Dresden in a single night - after our 8000 and 4000 lb blockbusters took roofs off and blew the windows in, 650,000 incendiaries went down, many magnesium I imagine.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill N" <freeholder@starband.net> To: "Clive Smith" <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:00 PM Subject: Re: Re: Fire Extinguishers

> Yes, definitely. Bug engine cases. I have attended the burning of several. You have to start > with quite a bonfire to get them going, but once you do... Well, at the Jerome Jamboree in > Jerome Arizona a few years ago, a fire department responded from about 20 miles away. It lit > up the whole mountainside. > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clive Smith" <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:05 PM > Subject: Re: Fire Extinguishers > > > > > > Hey I said engines not anciliaries :-) > > Let have the gospel on this from someone who knows.. > > > > ...are there any VW engine 'blocks' made of magnesium alloy - definitely, > > not supposedly? > > > > ... and I hope my Syncro transmission case isn't mag ally... > > > > Clive > > '88 Syncro Transporter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stan Wilder" <wilden1@juno.com> > > To: <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM> > > Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:38 AM > > Subject: Re: Fire Extinguishers > > > > > > > Ho! Ho! Ho! and a bottle of cheap gin is awarded to Clive. > > > The Type IV engines have Magnesium Fan Shrouds and Transmission Cases. > > > Get that fire under control early even if you have to use vigorously > > > shaken cold beer for fire extinguishers. > > > (That has worked for me, not on a VW). > > > > > > Stan Wilder > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 01:54:59 +0100 Clive Smith > > > <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM> writes: > > > > > Two questions > > > > > 1. Do Vanagon engines have magnesium in them? > > > > > 2. Wouldn't fire depts know this (if true) and avoid putting > > > > water on > > > > these > > > > > car fires? > > > > > > > > 1) NO, despite it having been said in this list a few times, the > > > > alloys in > > > > the any auto engine, are not magnesium based, they're alumium based, > > > > and the > > > > alloying elements mainly used for casting alloys are silicon and > > > > manganese > > > > (and I can't remember what else). > > > > > > > > I may be wrong, but you'll have to go some to prove that anyone > > > > would cast > > > > any significant quantities of mag ally's into an auto engine - for > > > > one, all > > > > the threads would have to have inserts. > > > > > > > > 2) The question therefore doesn't arise, but if it did in > > > > prepoderance, > > > > they'd soon find out that mag ally's were being used a lot. > > > > > > > > Maybe someone should try setting a (real) mag ally wheel on fire - > > > > bet > > > > that's be a job - then spray it with water. > > > > > > > > Clive > > > > '88 Syncro Transporter > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dan Erlandson" <danoer1@ECLIPSE.NET> > > > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:37 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Fire Extinguishers > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well... This is what I heard from a former student (I am a high > > > > school > > > > Chem > > > > > teacher) who was also on the emergency squad in his town. I can > > > > speak to > > > > > accuracy of the Chemistry aspect of this, but you'll have to fill > > > > me in on > > > > > the accuracy/truth of the story... > > > > > > > > > > My former student told me that he was on duty on night when they > > > > received > > > > a > > > > > call about a vehicle on fire on Rte 287 in NJ. When they arrived > > > > the > > > > > vehicle turned out to be a Vanagon and luckily no one was injured, > > > > but as > > > > > the fire dept arrived and began to put out the fire the whole > > > > thing > > > > started > > > > > to really get going... the more they put on it (what were they > > > > using ???) > > > > > the worse it got... The Van was reduced to cinders (supposedly). > > > > What my > > > > > student told me was that one of the firefighters said that the > > > > engine must > > > > > have a fair amount of magnesium in it. > > > > > > > > > > Ok so here is the chemistry info... Magnesium (they stuff they > > > > used to > > > > use > > > > > in the old time disposable flash bulbs) is pretty slow to react at > > > > room > > > > > temperatures with air, water... Acid makes it react very quickly > > > > at R.T., > > > > > but turn that water into steam and Magnesium really reacts > > > > quickly... > > > > almost > > > > > like the floating fire effect if you have ever seen sodium or > > > > potassium > > > > > react with water. So it is true that if an engine had magnesium > > > > in it > > > > (what > > > > > % ???) and that engine caught fire, then the conversion of any > > > > water in/on > > > > > the engine to steam would simply accelerate the fire. > > > > > > > > > > Two questions > > > > > 1. Do Vanagon engines have magnesium in them? > > > > > 2. Wouldn't fire depts know this (if true) and avoid putting > > > > water on > > > > these > > > > > car fires? > > > > > > > > > > I'd weigh in on the fire extinguisher question and say any (except > > > > for > > > > water > > > > > based) would be ok. > > > > > > > > > > -- -- Dan Erlandson > > > > > 99 Passat > > > > > 91 Vanagon GL > > > > > Flemington, NJ > > > > > > danoer1@eclipse.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steven Dodson <steven@EPOCHDESIGN.COM> > > > > > > Reply-To: Steven Dodson <steven@EPOCHDESIGN.COM> > > > > > > Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:08:36 -0700 > > > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > > > > Subject: Fire Extinguishers > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the best type of extinguisher for our Vanagons? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Steven Dodson > > > > > > Kneeland, CA > > > > > > "Inga" the 87 Syncro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On > > > > Behalf > > > > > > Of Larry Chase > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:09 AM > > > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > > > > Subject: Re: vanagon Digest - 28 Aug 2002 to 29 Aug 2002 - > > > > Special issue > > > > > > (#2002-1044) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, yah got my attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > "extinguisher would have eaten the metal of the engine block". > > > > > > > > > > > > What's this about? > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy Trails, > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry Chase > > > > > > 85 Westy "RoadHaus" > > > > > > 90 Westy Syncro ... Soon > > > > > > Mesa, AZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:51:10 -0600 > > > > > > From: Eric Nettles <enettles@IRAKUSA.COM> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Spare Parts List - Input > > > > > > > > > > > > Oddly enough, and just to add debate, I was lucky that the fire > > > > extinguisher > > > > > > didn't work when my van's fuel lines went up... The fire was > > > > small and > > > > out > > > > > > early, but an extinguisher would have eaten the metal of the > > > > engine > > > > block, > > > > > > doing more damage than the fire did. 'S just what the friendly > > > > local > > > > > > firemen said as they swapped stories about all the vehicles > > > > they'd > > > > burned > > > > > > themselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > > >


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