Date:         Sat, 7 Sep 2002 00:09:39 -0400
Reply-To:     alan barber <barb2375@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         alan barber <barb2375@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Eurovans future
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Date:    Fri, 6 Sep 2002 23:06:01 +0100
From:    Anthony Polson <acpolson@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Eurovans future

I'm not sure what the original message was about, but it's safe to say that
the Eurovan's future is pretty much over. They are no longer being made.

Then I read Tony's diatribe,

>No doubt, in the USA, the economic downturn after 9/11/2001 played a big
>part in the slow sales of 2001 Eurovans, and that's probably why your
dealer
>still has 2001 models available.

Huh? Eurovan sales have been steadily climbing since early 2001. Sales are
up many hundreds of percent over the same period in 2000. I'd have to check,
but I'm pretty sure that the 2002 sales are up like 400% from this time last
year.

>Compared to the Vanagon, the Eurovan has less room inside, a harder ride
and
>a noisy powertrain.  On the plus side, it has a more modern engine with
>lower fuel consumption, slightly better handling and spare parts that are
>common with many contemporary VW cars.  To add a personal comment, it is in
>my opinion one of the most dull and boring vehicles that VW has ever
>produced.

Ok, this gets pretty hilarious. First off, the Eurovan has 201 cubic feet of
interior space. Hey, waddya know, that's the same amount of space in a
Vanagon! A noisy powertrain? Yeehaa! I've got news for you, the later model
Eurovans are far quieter than the Vanagon. A harder ride? Neither is plush,
but hey, they are trucks deep down and not car based vans.

And dull and boring is severely objective. If you find sitting on the side
of the road exciting, or planning trips around where the good mechanics
reside interesting, or simply if wondering just what the heck is going to
break next seems like solving a puzzle to you, then a Vanagon is a great
choice. If dull and boring means getting where you want to go without any of
that kind of stress, combined with awesome climate control and the ability
to tow, I'll go for dull and boring.

>In the UK, used T4s (Eurovans) of 1991-3 vintage now sell for less than
used
>T25s (Vanagons) with comparable milage and in similar condition.  If that
>doesn't say something, I don't know what does!

Having lived in London, I'd say you're making this part up. The most popular
of all the vans amongst VW lovers is definitely the loaf. By far. Vanagons
are pretty rare. Nearly all the T4s I saw were commercial vehicles. But life
over there is very different from here. Small cars are valued and pretty
nearly the only thing that will fit in many intown parking garages. It's a
very different attitude towards transport. For more of a real life
comparison for citizens of North America, try looking at vehicles in the US
and Canada.

>As to reliability, I would expect that a new Eurovan would be a lot better
>than a (minimum) ten-year-old Vanagon, but like-for-like comparisons cannot
>be made.

Compare a 91 Vanagon with a 93 Eurovan. There's a reasonably fair
comparison. There may be a couple of years between them, but you are talking
about a mature vehicle vs. a first year vehicle so that levels it a bit.

>I make no apologies for presenting a personal view.  As you will have
>realised by now, I'm no fan of the Eurovan!

I've had one of just about every type of aircooled VW. A 68 Fastback, 69
Squareback, 68 Ghia, 71 Ghia convertible, 69 Bug Convertible, 71 bug, 59
single cab pickup, 69 bus, and 78 Westy. My favorite by far was the 78
Westy. I bought it in 82 and just sold it last year. The Eurovan is my first
watercooled VW. It's been time for the Eurovan for quite a while. I skipped
the Vanagon years because several of my friends bought them and had an
enormous amount of problems. Expensive, quirky, repeated problems. The 78
was rock solid and never caused me any real problems, but I really needed
air conditioning and the ability to tow. I also got a real heater, better
fuel mileage, a lot more versatlity, and a more useful cargo area. It also
pollutes less and is a lot quieter and smoother. I don't think that there's
a thing that the 78 did better, except maybe it was cheaper.

Just the opinion of a man that isn't afraid of change.

Az
--
AH#56