Date:         Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:30:31 +1200
Reply-To:     Andrew Grebneff <andrew.grebneff@STONEBOW.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Andrew Grebneff <andrew.grebneff@STONEBOW.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject:      Re: Eurovans future (now-vw does not make sportscars)
In-Reply-To:  <001c01c257a1$29c93ac0$0d00a8c0@LAGOS>
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii

>Metro? I think you'll find that the original Austin Mini was its Momma, and
>as for hatchbacks the Austin A40 Farina (early 60's) was the momma of them
>all! So Austin defined this concept totally, but didn't invest in refining
>it fast enough (maybe the British disease - as with computers, swing wings,
>vertical take off fighters - you name it!).

The Austin had a hinged window, not a proper hatch.

The Renault ... er... 14? was a hatch, and there was a performance
version long before the Golf came along in 1973.

>Torsion WTF indeed? Whaddya saying? Its not the suspension design on fwd's
>that sucks, its the suspension design that transmutes an inherently
>understeering vehicle into one that is nominally neutral (by modifying the
>virtual roll centres, and front to rear roll-centre axis). I've driven quite
>a few minis that were inherently oversteering cars and in the wrong hands,
>lethal, so better understand where suspension designers are coming from
>here - old grannies and litigation, same reason VW never put front lockers
>on US Syncros. Understeering is an inherently 'stable' state, oversteering
>isn't!

This depends on the amount of oversteer, where it comes in and
whether it's strong or not and whether it's controllable. The best
handlers oversteer mildly at the limit, but not in a straight line.

>  > Also, ALL front drive cars are understeering pigs to some degree,
>>  think about it, (hint-weight transfer).

The better FWDs oversteer mildly at speed on bends, but can be
steered with the throttle. Power-on understeer, power-off mild
oversteer.

>I agree at last, the potential is there, except that weight is high

It's not... (high, that is)

>and
>hence requires lots of tyre, power and brake. Not exactly 'chuckable'
>either, but well balanced with plenty of traction.

My 75 1800 Kombi was certainly chuckable, and I loved squirting along
twisty hilly narrowish country roads. Of course it had Koins and
quality tires. My T3 understeered too much to be fun, with its iron
V6.
--
Andrew Grebneff
165 Evans St, Dunedin 9001, New Zealand
<andrew.grebneff@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
Seashell, Macintosh, VW/Toyota van nut