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Date:         Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:45:18 EDT
Reply-To:     THX0001@AOL.COM
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         George Goff <THX0001@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: More & More Info on Copper Core German Radiators
Comments: To: vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Oh, the Big Wind rises from the East and it blows both hot and fetid. Unfortunately and as much as I dislike the format, I can only respond to its verbosity and varied course by way of snippets. My comments are delineated by "***". So, here goes.

In a message dated 10/1/02 4:52:50 PM, vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM writes:

<< In a message dated 10/1/02 11:25:10 AM, George Goff writes of Ken Wilfy:

> Or, in this case, is the definition of "imagine": > to form a notion of without sufficient basis?

after writing such comments as ...

> Judging from the print quality of the last manual > I bought from them, (Bentley Publishers) might > be on the ropes.

and ...

> (Regarding Ken Wilfy's German radiators), removing > the manufacturer's trademark name is usually done to > second quality merchandise.

and, previously, advising people to ...

> tell the vendor that you want a replacement part > which was made in Germany and labeled consistent > with the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations. Saying > that makes it a condition of the sales agreement between > a willing seller and a willing buyer. It works for me every time.

Although the criticisms in these particular threads seem to be directed at VanAgain and Bentley this time and not at me (for a change :-)

***Don't flatter yourself. It is simply that often you make yourself into such an easy target.***

When you posted the message which I quoted last (suggesting that listmembers demand "only German parts"), I took the trouble to explain in great detail why this would be a very bad idea.

***Bad? Bad for whom? From your perspective as a salesman, it seems that it might only be bad for YOU.***

Now, just a few short days later, Ken WIlfy is in fact offering just that - a German made radiator. But you now want proof such as "btu/hr ratings" that it's better than the South African one, and vaguely imply that Ken is misleading us if he cannot provide it. This has me very perplexed. After all, aren't you the very same person who just said that you buy nothing but German parts for your Vanagon, as a strict and unwavering condition of sale, and advised everyone else to do the same? Based on your own assertion just days earlier, had you in fact ordered a radiator from Ken, you'd have accepted nothing _but_ the German one as a matter of course, and in fact would have refused the radiator if the one he sent was _not_ German! Or perhaps you have now recanted that position in view of the arguments presented against it - in which case I must certainly give you credit for doing so.

***I cannot abide human suffering, so please allow me to try to lift you from your state of perplexity. Ken Wllfy (sic) is offering a German made, copper radiator which he "imagines" is more efficient. In my experience, I have found Ken to be a decent and honest person but, in this case, he was insinuating something for which he had no proof. His statement smacked of that blind, good ol' American mentality of bigger is better and, outside of his prejudice, was meritless.

"had you in fact . . ." Boy, Ron, you're really reaching here to make a valid argument of your pointless speculation. Here's a fact for you to mull over: I would never order a German made, copper radiator from Ken because in the garage I have a new GERMAN made, ALUMINUM radiator quietly awaiting its turn.

And, here are some more facts: During the past couple of months I have been renewing a van. Whether purchased from a VW specialty shop or the VW dealer, the dozens of parts which I have bought were ALL made in Germany. I did not have to wait days to see from which country the BusDepot (BD) lottery was going to provide the parts. I didn't have to waste time with BD's elite staff only to find out they could not tell me for certain which part number my van required or that the BD could only provide some of the parts of an assembly while the other vital components had to be purchased at the dealer. No, I didn't have to endure any of that bullshit. I simply sauntered up to the parts counter and ordered my German parts. Also, I was pleasantly surprised to find that some of the items purchased from the VW dealer were 25% cheaper than the BD's prices and that was before BD's shipping charges were tacked on. I'm tellin' ya, people, make friends with the parts guy at your local VW dealership! It can't hurt.

By the way, I am not a Deutschland chauvinist and I will use parts from other countries as long as they say "Made in USA" on them.***

You then go on to state that Ken's radiators may be factory seconds, simply because the VW logo is removed . . . . . . As I understand it, this is because the manufacturer may only be licensed to use the VW logo on inventory that he is private-labeling for VW, but not on inventory that he is selling directly under his own brand. It does not necessarily imply that the product is a second.

*** Ron, you know as well as I do that, to a prudent man, a defaced trademark is damn good reason to question whether or not the goods are merchantable. While " it does not necessarily imply that the product is a second ", at least you allow that it might be a second.

Since you have such a penchant for the subjunctive, here's another scenario to consider. After a bunch of stuff, VW specs out a radiator and then after a bunch of more stuff, awards a contract to a vendor. The vendor does his thing and delivers however many boatloads of radiators to VW. Do you really think that VW merely counts the radiators then cuts a check to the vendor, as you might do? Or do you think that somewhere in this saga VW QC has reared its ugly head and taken a statistical sampling of the goods on which to gauge the vendor's performance of the contract? After all, unlike you, VW has not arrived at their position of preeminence by expecting their customers to perform its quality control. Now just imagine if these boatloads of radiators do not fall within the parameters of VW's empirical model and they are rejected. It is well within the realm of plausibility that the vendor might dump these substandard goods on the first schmo to come looking for a deal.***

***There is much, much more, but since I have nothing to sell, I've grown weary of providing counterpoint to this insipid discourse, so I will cut to the chase. Quality parts stand on their own merits. They will be plainly marked as to the country of origin and the manufacturer. They will not need to be attended by reams of provisos, explanations nor apologies. Above all else, Buckaroos, I'm sorry to say, there is no Santa Claus and no free lunch.***

George


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