Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:52:38 -0500
Reply-To: John Rodgers <j_rodgers@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <j_rodgers@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Roadhaus - 2.2L Engine Install , Prelimanary Report / Response
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Looking forward to getting some feed back on your trip as it
progresses..
John Rodgers
88 GL driver
Larry Chase wrote:
>
> Volks,
>
> Thanks to All who responded to this thread and for the thoughtful ,
> passionate debate.
>
> Its my belief that the "Light of Day" always flushes out the best
> information.
>
> Lets put those high beams in the dark corners and see what we learn.
>
> Interestedly ....... only "ONE" person contacted me directly.
>
> In my original posting I noticed one "TYPO"
>
> CLIPPING OF ORIGINAL POST >>>>
>
> Engine Stats:
>
> Engine: 2.2L 135HP Euro Cars of Denver
> Note ... used original core with 160k on it.
> Install Completed: 10.13.02
> Output HP: 115hp@4800rpm
> Torque: 135 ft lbs.
> Displacement: 2220 cc
> Stroke: 76.20mm
> Bore: 95 mm
> Compression: 10 to 1
>
> FIRST LINE SHOULD HAVE READ
>
> Engine: 2.2L 115HP Euro Cars of Denver
>
> I did accuratley state the HP under "Output HP: 115hp@4800rpm" and hope
> the typo didn't cause any confusion.
>
> Although I have enjoyed all the posts .... Ken Wilfords and a few others
> brought up a few points I wanted to address.
>
> Very important .... please understand,
>
> I AM NOT A GEAR HEAD AND DON'T PLAY ONE ON THE VANAGON.COM LIST :)
>
> My observations are purely from an end user seat of the pants perspective.
>
> Talking Points >>>>>
>
> Seat of the Pants Impressions:
>
> Background ..... the engine I had rebuilt, if I remember the receipts
> correctly ... had around 20k miles on it after a rebuild.
>
> I picked the Van up in LA on Sept 11th and drove it up through the Bay Area
> and over the mountains via Reno to Denver. Around 1200 miles.
>
> I was impressed with the stock 2.1L engine .... of course I had to down
> shift into third a fair amount coming over the mountains and across the
> various hills along the way.
>
> By the time I arrived in Denver I was feeling guilty about taking an Engine
> that was performing perfectly fine and rebuilding it. In my humble opinion,
> this engine had another 50,000 - 60,000 miles of life in her.
>
> Felt strong and certainly more powerful than my 85 Westy's 1.9L engine.
>
> Fast forward to the trip Denver to Dallas after the 2.2L conversion.
>
> Several comments were about perception of increased performance improvement
> and how after spending x amount of dollars anyone wants to feel improvement
> so much, they image it.
>
> This I know to be a true phenomena.
>
> My point of view is "You betcha" I think some percentage of my perceived
> performance improvement is due to this.
>
> However, I'm very comfortable in saying ..... a larger percentage is true
> seat of the pants perceived engine performance improvement.
>
> She accelerates quicker and runs at higher cruising speeds easily.
>
> Please don't beat on me for running her too hard ... just followed the
> Engine Builders Break-In advice.
>
> After all .. he's supplying the warranty.
>
> Dyno Testing:
>
> What the heck do I know .... but I think this is a valid point.
>
> I can say ... it's my understanding that Euro Cars has this is in the works.
>
> As one poster pointed out .... need to make sure it's apples to apples
> testing.
>
> So come on Ken ..... let's put this on the fast track :)
>
> Head to Head Dyno Testing.
>
> Ken Wilford made this brilliant suggestion >>>> if the parties can agree on
> test parameters for a fair comparison.
>
> More fruit i.e...... Apples to Apples.
>
> I assume it becomes somewhat complex to identify sameness .... but if
> possible, this would truly be interesting.
>
> Perhaps an easier platform to establish sameness would be a 2WD
> configuration.
>
> But if not, I'll gladly make my 1990 Syncro Westy available.
>
> Ken & Bob >>>> what do you say?
>
> Why Did I Install a Euro Cars 2.2L Engine:
>
> When I was going thru the decision process on which engine to install ... I
> asked and as usual got very helpful information and suggestions from the
> lists.
>
> After deciding (right or wrong) to stick with a more stock install (debug
> time and for ease of the road parts and repair) I narrowed the choices down
> to three possibilities.
>
> My OBJECTIVE was MORE ON RELIABILITY THAN PERFORMANCE INCREASE.
>
> Boston Engine
> AVP
> Euro Cars
>
> Frankly I believe either of these would have been a good choice .....
> although admit to favoring Boston Engine & Euro Cars.
>
> In one of my first conversations with Euro Cars I explained the details of
> my trip "Drive Around North America Continuously For a Year or More"
> travelling maybe 50,000+ miles in total.
>
> Ken, at Euro Cars .... was very excited about the possibility of having his
> engine subjected to such a extensive "Live Road Test". I actually cautioned
> Ken and tried to moderate his enthusiasm a bit ..... by reminding him that
> it's possible a few eyes would be on this trip and if his engine didn't
> perform all the world would be in the co-pilots seat.
>
> Ken didn't blink .... in fact he was so confident in his product he made a
> proposal.
>
> - Waived the normal 12,000 mile warranty and extended it for the duration of
> the trip, could exceed 50,000 miles.
> - If there was a Catastrophic Fail of the Engine (stuff happens) ... he
> would Fed-Ex me a new engine, at his expense.
>
> - And ....... understood that I would be factually reporting on my
> perception of the performance of the engine ... Good or Bad.
>
> "Lets put those high beams in the dark corners and see what we learn"
>
> I was impressed and at that point decided to use them for my Engine
> Solution.
>
> I sincerely hope this information and future postings will be useful.
>
> If anyone has meaningful ways a Non Gear Head like me could measure the
> performance of this engine and remove some of the subjectivity, I'd be very
> interested in suggestions.
>
> I believe there is NO "One Size Fits All" answer to the question .... Which
> is the Best Engine.
>
> It all depends on ones needs and objectives.
>
> Hitting the Trail Soon,
>
> Larry Chase
>
> Email: lchase@attglobal.net
> Web: www.roadhaus.com - Under Construction
> What: The Great North American Road Trip
> When: 01.02.03
> How: RoadHaus - 1990 2.2 L VW Westfalia Syncro
> Today: Dallas, TX - Front AC Install
> From: Mesa, AZ
>
> - - - -
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:59:22 -0400
> From: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
> Subject: Re: Roadhaus - 2.2L Engine Install , Preliminary Report
>
> >Second, if you have several of these engines in folks vans, then how
> hard would it be to take one to a dyno and have it tested? Especially
> since Larry and going to be travelling all over the US. We could
> arrange some type of test along the way that would satisfy everyone.
> Then we would see if the EC claims are real, or just something they
> copied from a european VW manual. It would even better to have Larry's
> van and a stock Vanagon (perhaps even with one of Bob's engines in it)
> get tested on the dyno the same day (that way you are factoring out
> elevation level, dyno error, etc).
> What do you say?<
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