Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:31:28 EDT
Reply-To: FrankGRUN@AOL.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Frank Grunthaner <FrankGRUN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Roadhaus - 2.2L Engine Install , Prelimanary Report
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In a message dated 10/15/02 9:35:52 PM, kimbrennan@MAC.COM writes:
<< How do >YOU< know that it is untested? All I see from you is criticism
with only marginal explanation for you criticism. Both times I have seen
you post complaining about EuroCars engines, you only cover one aspect
of the work they do, namely the increase in compression.
However they also increase the size of the cylinders, and change the
camshaft.
Now it may be snake oil, but on the other hand at least a couple of the
listees have reported happiness with the engine, which is hardly saying
it is a bad deal. Considering what it costs to have an engine replaced
anyway, it might be as good as what you provide. And since it is quite a
ways geographically from you, I'd hardly say it is likely to steal much
business from you. >>
Gentlemen,
I must weigh in with some seconding comments here. I'll have to stand with
BostonBob here. Claims of power increases with modest displacement changes,
even compression, timing and chip mods can only be taken seriously with the
harsh reality of numbers. I have indicated in previous posts, its
comparatively easy to get analytical with this process. In LA, the answer can
be 3 runs for $75 bucks. It can also be as easy as a series of careful single
gear acceleration runs. If one sells engines with this advertised rating,
some data needs to back it up.
As to people being satisfied with the changes and power increase, there are
at least three possibilities:
1. The engine is really putting out the advertised power or more.
2. The original engine was in such a state that it delivered 20% less power
than stock, then the delta is huge!
3. The anterior placebo effect. Our desire to justify painful investments is
a powerful aphrodisiac as regards that butt-mounted accelerometer.
In past posts, I have given a simple figure of merit to calibrate your
ability to detect minor power increases and decreases. Hint, it was part of
my discussion of the impact of changing wheel/tire dimensions.
I can assure all, that many a well meaning engine tuner with carefully
thought out execution plan and plausible power enhancement theory has tasted
the bitter gall of actually reducing the real performance of a stock system.
In no way do I want to impugn the quality of work by the shop involved here.
I have no first hand knowledge. I would (without data to the contrary)
classify these gains in the same column as the so called Lilley (sp)
modifications ... a tantalizing tune on the way to Hamlin.
Frank Grunthaner
And, no, I haven't checked the web site. Just reacting to the lack of Dyno
results.
