Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:25:05 -0400
Reply-To: Laurence Smith <laurence@ALANASMITH.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Laurence Smith <laurence@ALANASMITH.COM>
Subject: Re: The end of the road (86 westy runnin' rich) - LONG STORY
In-Reply-To: <F99kLGTji7zytmp8E7m0000b7a8@hotmail.com>
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Well John, I've been where you are. I know it is awfull. My Westy was down
from Oct 2001 - Feb 2002. 5 months of frustration and a lot of money. I
changed every Digifant component. I was trying to solve a very serious rich
running condition. My symptoms were exactly the same as yours. It would
run fine until warm and then belch out black smoke. The oxygen sensor
voltage readings were extremely high - nothing near the 0.5 volts +/- 0.3
volts.
My Westy is a 1990. I got out the Bentley, yet again, and said I am going
to find and check all those grounds again. I had already resoldered new
eyelets on all of them - or so I thought. Anyway, there was one ground that
I had missed and it was the one I told you about in a previous email. It is
the one attached to the left head.
Anyway, I went out to account for all 7 grounds and could only find 6 coming
off the harness and all went to the firewall. I couldn't find the one that
goes under the intakes, on the head. That is, I couldn't find it coming off
the harness anywhere. So then I assumed that the previous owner had cut it
out the harness (but how would the engine run okay as long as it did? - I
asked myself). I couldn't find it coming out of the harness so I thought
it was just sniped back flush with the harness when the heads were done a
few years ago. I was to be proven wrong, but I'll get to that later.
I was out of ideas. I had already changed every Digifant part, some of them
twice, the AFM three times (god)!. So I decided that I will replace that
"missing" ground by running a new one wire from terminal 19 on the ECU (see
Bentley diagrams). At the ECU connector I pulled back the rubber boot and
found the brown wire coming off the terminal 19. I cut into the insulation
(didn't cut the wire) and carefully spliced in a new ground wire. I ran the
wire back to the engine and terminated it on the little tab on the
distributor housing. Fully expecting yet another failure, I started the
engine, waited for it to warm up and, and ... it ran fine. No more black
smoke and terrible stumbling! The O2 readings were also good at 0.5 volts
fluctuating about +/- 0.3 volts.
To test my ground wire fix I took if off the distibutor and sure enough the
rich symptoms reappeared. I must have done this about 6 times. I was
elated!
It was the damn ECU terminal 19 ground not doing its job to provide proper
oxygen sensor readings to the ECU. Now I know, I know, I know, that your O2
sensor has been disconnected, replaced, sweaked, fiddled with ad nauseum. I
did all the O2 fiddling as well. But the terminal 19 ground wire has a mind
of its own and doesn't give a damn about the state of the O2 sensor.
Anyway I tidied eveything up and ran my Westy until June 2002. No rich
problems at all.
Then I had to do my water pump. While I was doing this I had to run a new
small oil cooler pipe under the intakes back to the thermostat housing.
What's this wire I see? The elusive ground wire from terminal 19! It
doesn't come out of the harness in an obvious spot, it branches off the
sheath of wires that goes to the hall sender. The connection was in poor
shape. So to make the ECU terminal 19 become super grounded, I now have two
good ground wires.
Anyway, that's my story. I spent a huge amount of time and money on this
problem and it was a simple ground. On the bright side, I am now a Digifant
"expert" and have helped several other people with identical problems as
myself.
So, if you have checked out that ground wire and the green wires seems to be
in good shape, my advice to you is to purchase a replacement green O2 wire
and run it back to the ECU and splice the 2 coaxial components into the wire
bundle near the ECU. VW actually sells just this wire because of problems
with them internally shorting. It is coaxial. While you're at it, I would
also run a new terminal 19 ground wire back to the engine.
If you want to talk to me on the phone please call me at home and I can
better explain any of these details. My number is (905) 524-5205 up here in
Canada.
Hang in there!
- Laurence
Laurence Smith
Hamilton, ON
90 Westy (fanumbos)
---------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf Of
john cianci
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:40 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: The end of the road (86 westy runnin' rich)
Well I guess the saga is coming to an end....again thanks for all the
help...the westy has been in the shop for close to two months now and we
still can't fugure out whats wrong...so far been through ecu, o2 sensor, MAF
is OK, Fuel pressure is fine, the westy runs great when its cold but as
soon as she warms up....down the tubes... She doesn't run any better with
teh maf unplugged, o2 unplugged. We checked the thermostat, temp switch, a
crap load of grounds have been replaced.... We are at a loss here don't know
where to go next....any more ideas would be great...so far ideas have been
hall sendor ground, capacitor in AFM, grounds, injectors, air filter, wow...
I don't know what to do...tahnks again everyone. John
John Cianci
Research Assistant
Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
Clarkson University
315-268-3776
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