Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:26:01 -0500
Reply-To: Derek Drew <derekdrew@RCN.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Derek Drew <derekdrew@RCN.COM>
Subject: Questions About Adding Diff Lock To Non-Lockers
In-Reply-To: <200211071538.PQK75927@vmms5.verisignmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I have received over time numerous questions about how to convert a
non-locking vehicle into a locking one.
I will reproduce here the best information I know about this job. This
information should be in the archives in any case.
Firstly, let me say that I don't think the job should yet be attempted by
someone who lacks either a dead donor Syncro or alternatively a combination
of Bentley plus either EKTA or the microfiche. There are just too many
loose ends that have to be tracked down.
The best possible way to do this job is to call or phone every junk yard
you can find, and then find a dead syncro, and then beg them to let you
take the parts off the donor van yourself.
However, it is also possible to order all the parts from VW and install
them this way. Avoid using VW directly for this purpose, however, as they
charge too much $$. Instead, order the parts through either Weddle or me
and possibly Rennie/Volksdragon or Camelback is probably your best bet.
The discussion begins below the quoted text below.
At 10:38 AM 11/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I think Derek Drew <derekdrew@RCN.COM> was sourcing the
>differential lock bits at one point.
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>
>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:16:17 -0700
> >From: Jeff K <kennedy@THERIVER.COM>
> >Subject: 2wd locking diff - followship question
> >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >
> >thanks for the replies regarding the locking diff in the
>2wd. Lots of people interested, but it doesn't look like
>anyones done it. Darrell at AA says he'll do it for $500 over
>the price of a rebuild; Weddle is something like $400, but
>their rebuild is 1200. In either case, you have to buy the
>locker servo and all the other stuff seperately.
> >
> >Can anyone explain to me how the locking servo works, and
>what other parts I'll need? I looked in the Bentley, it was
>kinda vague. I'm assuming It's a vacuum lock, meaning I'll
>have to run vacuum lines from the engine to the tranny and
>back. Do I need a vacuum tank, too? And then some kind of
>servo to control the vacuum, with associated electrics
>running up to the dash and back? I've never seen one on a
>van, so the more details the better. thanks again.
> >
> > Jeff
> >Bisbee, AZ
The job is really two complete different pieces of work. One involves the
internals of the transmission and the other involves the exterior parts.
INTERNALS
Daryl at AA and Weddle mentioned above are both the right places to go to
have the transmission work done plus on the east coast Dennis Haynes on
Long Island New York. Also, in the Carolinas I think, notajeep@aol.com
seems to have been heavily involved, although I haven't checked out whether
he has all the factory tools to do the measurements 100% correctly. But he
is certainly very "in" to this topic. He may be exiting the business,
however. Regarding Dennis Haynes, you can reach Dennis Haynes at
dhaynes@optonline.net. I would not worry too much about location as the
cost of shipping these transmissions around via Federal Expresses new
Ground service is quite low -- on the order of $75 coast to coast. The
email address for Weddle is info@2weddle.com and the email address for
Daryl is aatransaxle@JUNO.COM. The labor charge at Weddle to do the front
diff is $200, I now do the fronts for $300, and I don't know what anyone
will charge you for the rear transmission. If doing the rear transmission,
consider changing your ring and pinion ratio at that time to one of higher
ratio such as 5.42 or 6.17.
EXTERNALS
This remainder of this article is primarily about the exterior parts that
you will need.
Firstly, I have not yet found the part number for the modified heater
outlet decorative trim panel in the front. The diff lock version of that
part has a cutout in it to enable the diff lock components to be mounted.
My best advice at this time is simply to have people cut out their existing
non-diff lock panel in the proper shape to accommodate the diff lock
components. They can do this with a little saw that can cut plastic There
is a drawing that I prepared for that purpose that I have posted to my web
storage are for your convenience here:
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/Cutout_dimensions_Front_Air_Plate.htm
Beyond that, the next thing you will need is a diff lock servo. These cost
about $135 at the VW dealer but I sell them for $76 alone, or for $165 as
part of a kit that enables you to add a front diff lock plumbing for a diff
lock to the front of your vehicle. This kit includes everything from the
diff lock servo up to the dash, including bulbs, knobs, switches, rubber,
and plumbing lines. To apply the same kit to the rear of the vehicle, at a
minimum, you will need an extra length of hose which drives the price up
$10 to $175 for the rear plumbing kit.
EXTENDED EXTERNALS PROBLEM
If you never had a diff lock in the rear before, you will need yet more parts.
According to my research, it is not cost effective to buy the factory
wiring harnesses for the diff lock, so the best thing is to simply make
your own harness which is not hard. You can look in your Bentley to see
what that harness looks like.
Regarding the other parts that need to be ordered in addition to the list
above, the following is the list or parts you will need. There may be an
odd piece missing from this list below, and there may be something there
you actually don't need. But the list is pretty good.
*251 711 998 tube ( DD:$9 / VWoA:$9 / VWP:$NA)
251 711 990A tube (DD$7:VWoA:$NA/VWP:#NA)
*251 711 903 breather assembly (DD$49 / VWoA:$NA / VWP:$NA)
*433 862 117 check valve (DD:$17.22 / VWoA:$24.15 / VWP:$20.53) ($18)
251 711 816 bracket (DD:$11.43 / VWoA:$12.90 / VWP:$NA) DONE
251 711 849 01C trim for differential lock operation (DD:$13.20 /
VWoA:$17.30 / VWP:$15.09) (90V is the brown one probably)
251 711 650 bracket (DD:$NA / VWoA:$NA / VWP:$NA) (apparently not in
database -- NLA so make your own up as needed)
251 711 857 support (DD:$7 / VWoA:$NA / VWP:$NA)
251 919 175 light fibre for diff lock display (DD:$34.84 / VWoA:$33.55 /
VWP:$NA)
251 919 181 printed foil circuit for diff lock operation (DD:$4.35 /
VWoA:$6.20 / VWP:$NA)
058 131 541 vacuum tank (DD:$30.10 / VWoA:$23.00 / VWP:$20.06)
*251 711 937 trim for differential lock dash setup (DD:$8.02 / VWoA:$NA /
VWP:$NA)
*251 711 938 trim for differential lock dash setup (DD:$8.02 / VWoA:$NA /
VWP:$NA)
In the list above, the first price indicates the price at which you can
order these parts from me (Europe ordering system, derekdrew@rcn.com ), the
second price indicates VW dealer list price in 2001 or the approximate
current price from Camelback if it is known, and the third price, if there
is one, shows the price at which you can order these parts from
www.vwparts.com. The letters NA means that the part appears to be
unavailable from this source. You can order each part from the least
expensive source available to you unless you are in a hurry since the part
is the same no matter where you order it from. I did not check to see the
availability of these parts at www.busdepot.com (sorry Ron) simply due to
lack of time. You will probably also be able to order these parts from
Weddle I would guess but don't know for sure.
Numbers preceded by a * are in stock at my place now, whereas other parts
are not.
The list above assumes you will already have received the diff lock
indicator switch itself from your transmission supplier.
If you did not receive that switch, then you will need both it as well as
its associated washer.
The switch is a pain to locate in EKTA and its washer is even harder to
locate. In any event, the switch is not available at either
www.busdepot.com or www.vwparts.com according to what I could see in their
part number search tool. I do stock and sell the switch for and its
associated always replace washer for $25.00 or I think you can buy one from
VW at North American dealerships for about $33.50.
The above list also assumes that you don't need the diff lock bracket. Get
that from your transmission rebuilder.
Looking through all of the above, one possible low cost strategy to order
new parts is to make orders as follows:
VWPARTS.COM (Spend $20.06 as follows)
058 131 541 $20.06
DEREKDREW@RCN.COM (Spend $169.08 or $178.08 or $208.18 as follows)
*251 711 998 tube $9
251 711 990A tube $7
*251 711 903 breather assembly $49
*433 862 117 check valve $17.22
251 711 816 bracket $11.43
251 711 849 01C trim for differential lock operation $13.20 (specify
90V if you don't want black; 90V is brown?)
251 711 857 support $7
251 919 175 light fibre for diff lock display $34.84
251 919 181 printed foil circuit for diff lock operation $4.35
*251 711 937 trim for differential lock dash setup $8.02
*251 711 938 trim for differential lock dash setup $8.02
Optional if needed: ($25.00 for diff lock indicator switch and washer)
Optional for 1 stop ordering 058 131 541 ($30.10) and skip the
www.vwparts.com separate order.
SELF FABRICATE
251 711 650 bracket if you really need it
TWO FINAL LOOSE ENDS, Adding Switch Clamp And The Protective Heater Hose
When you put the dash switch into service you should put a plastic wire tie
around two of the air prongs in order to hold the plastic surrounding the
front dash switch securely around the front dash switch. This will prevent
the dash switch assembly from coming apart later on the road. The factory
uses a very small thin metal hose clamp for this purpose, but this is not
documented in EKTA or Bentley in any reasonable way so print out this email
as a reminder to do it later on your own. Theoretically, owners could pull
their switch assemblies apart unintentionally while driving, which is why
the factory added this precaution.
Secondly, the factory put a protective piece of hose between the diff lock
servo and the diff lock servo bracket to keep dirt and water from fouling
the servo. In early production runs of the syncro there was a factory OEM
part for this purpose and you will see this part on many syncros. I took a
picture of this hose here:
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/three_diff_lock_protector_shields.jpg
You can see in the background the shield that came on early Syncros in the
USA. This black piece is documented in EKTA but if you click on it it says
that the part has been discontinued. In later syncros, the factory switched
to using ordinary heater hose. The middle heater hose in the picture above
is for the rear transmission and it is a three piece design with two outer
pieces of heater hose and a horrible rusting piece of metal in the middle
position. In the foreground is the heater hose the factory uses for the
front differential and it is one piece design. The inside dimensions of
that heater hose should be between 16.2mm and 17.25mm and would ideally be
16.725mm. The VW OEM heater hose used at that location has an inside
dimension of 16.25mm, which is a little too tight. Sourcing replacement
hose is sort of a pain because it is fairly easy to find heater hose in the
USA of 16mm inside dimension (that is too tight and could damage the inner
seal) and it is fairly easy to find heater hose a lot larger than that, and
this might let dirt get into the area you are trying to get the dirt out
of. So if someone can find us the heater hose with the desirable dimensions
specified above, then that would help a lot. If doing your diff lock at
this time, you will have to do your best with this information. The length
of the heater hose is 35mm in the front and I haven't measured the back. By
the way, the factory part that was originally produced, the black one in
the back of the picture at
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/three_diff_lock_protector_shields.jpg
, is really a flimsy thing and probably should be discarded in favor of the
heater hose approach so don't think that just because there was an OEM part
there once that that OEM part was superior to the later method.
________________________________________________________
Derek Drew Washington, DC (& NYC)
derekdrew@rcn.com Phone 202-966-7907
Email me for viscous coupling s (Cell 703-408-1532)
'90 Syncro Westfalia...
...seen off-road at
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/Syncro_Madness_Area.htm
Note: most valuable Vanagon sites on the planet (for owners) are:
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=vanagon
http://gerry.vanagon.com/files/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro
http://www.vanagon.com
http://www.syncro.org
Many of my Syncro list postings consolidated
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/messagesearch?query=212-580-6486
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/messagesearch?query=202-966-7907
My refrigerator article:
http://www.vanagon.com/info/articles/Refrigerator/Reefer_Madness.htm
All About 16" Wheels And The CV-900.htm
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/All_About_16-Wheels_And_The_CV_900.htm
All About Viscous Couplings
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/viscous_couplings_vanagon_syncro.htm
How To Live With Heavy List Volume--Mail Filters
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/7403
My article that shows how to deal with insurance companies:
http://gerry.vanagon.com/files/auto-insurance-madness.html
To read some material about how to add a front differential lock to your syncro
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/13105
To view Wolfgang's incredibly informative wheel article
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/fitbigtiresonvanagon.htm
To view Tim Smith's incredibly useful gearing calculator
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/syncrotireandgearratios.xls
To view two articles about how to think about improving your gears at
transmission rebuild time
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/7207
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/7221
To view an overview article about choices in larger sized tires see
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/11535
To view some 16" Trailing Arms that enable much larger tires see
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syncrolist/files/Wheels%2C%20Tires%20%26%20Gearing/Wheel%20%26%20Tire%20Photos/16_Inch_Trailing_Arm.jpg
My article about belt protectors and CV joint protectors
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/6112
SYNCRO OWNERS WHO DRIVE OFF THE ROAD:
You only get to change your ring and pinions once every 10 years
because that's how long the average syncro transmission goes before
its next rebuild. If you want bigger tires and more ground clearance
start planning your higher number ring and pinion sets right now so
you
can take advantage of your next trans rebuild.
