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Date:         Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:31:53 -0800
Reply-To:     gary hradek <hradek@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         gary hradek <hradek@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      oil filter application
Comments: cc: poll7356@uidaho.edu, dbeierl@attglobal.net, jrasite@eoni.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Matthew,Jim and David, I have always considered the three of you, three apostles of the list, always giving useful information. As always the information was right on target. What is clear is the fram has problems with the valve design as I recall several times with my late 1973 audi 100ls would clatter a bit on startup on cold days until I changed the filter again. You could find a good fram now and then. What is addressed by David is that both the anti-drain valve and the by pass valve are important. The break down between the Mann fitting VW Audi before and after model year 90 is of some interest to me. It is interesting that the 4 cylinder turbo charged vw 98 passat has the same part number for the oil cooler as the 87 vanagon but sports a more expensive oil filter. The filter on the passat is on a slant like the vanagon but perhaps because of the turbo the oil temperature and pressure are different requiring a different by pass pressure. What is scary is the oil 5W30. Quite different from the 20w50 I put in the vanagon. Thanks again for all the valuable information, gary

--- Jim Arnott <jrasite@eoni.com> wrote: > Gary, > > <http://wetwesties1.tripod.com/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy-german.html>

--- David Beierl <dbeierl@attglobal.net> wrote: > At 11:21 PM 11/13/2002, gary hradek wrote: > >Dan, > > So we have the fram that is the same for the > two, > >vanagon and the passat and we have the mann which > list > >two different filters. Many have damn the frams > for > >the vanagons. So what is the difference here? > >Which delivers the best flow at the right > pressures? > >Speculation is the fuel for the list. > > > > > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:03:19 > -0800Reply-To: YauMan Chan > ><YauMan@CCHEM.BERKELEY.EDU>Sender: Vanagon > Mailing List > ><vanagon@vanagon.com>From: YauMan Chan > ><YauMan@CCHEM.BERKELEY.EDU>Subject: IMPORTANT > INFO on Oil Filter- > >Conundrum no more.Comments: To: > vanagon@vanagon.comContent-Type: > >text/plain; charset=US-ASCIIOk.. fellow > Vanangonian.Someone here a few > >weeks ago asked about using Rabbit/Golf oil filters > in the Vanagon. This > >question has bugged me ever since I first got my > vanagon and realized that > >some manufacturers list the same oil filter part > number for the > >Rabbit/Golf as for the Vanagon whereas Mann/Bosch > and Mahle/Knecht list > >different parts.So, I decided to get the answer > from the houses mouth and > >this is e-mail I got which I will share with > you:"Thank you for your > >interest in KNECHT products."The main difference > between OC 108 and OC 47 > >is inside these filters. OC108 has an anti-dran > valve at the filter, OC 47 > >not. When you use OC 47 foryour car (VW > Tranporter/Vanagon) than you can > >get problems, when you startyour car. The motor is > at this time alwys to > >long without oil. OC 108 havealso a better paper > quality than OC 47, and > >the pressure bypass isdifferent. Please use for > your car OC 108, to get no > >damage at your car ormotor."If you have any > questions, please do not > >hesitate to contact me."Kind regards"Sandra > Rieger"1 VGP - > >Productmanagement"e-mail: sandra_riegerNow for some > background. The > >e-mail is verbetim -spelling error and bad english > et el. Obviously, > >Sandra's English is not the best, but you can all > undertand what she is > >trying to say. (Besides, who am I to criticize > somebody's English!!) The > >OEM filters on VW's are either Mann/Bosch or > Mahle/Knecht. VW Dealers > >usually carry Mann (same as Bosch) while most > foreign autoparts stores > >carry Knecht (same as Mahle) if you ask for OEM > filters. I wrote to both > >Mann/Bosch and Mahle/Knecht but only Mahl/Knecht > anwered my inquiry. OC108 > >is the filter listed for the Vanagon and OC47 is > listed for the > >Rabbit/Golf.Here's why the difference is important > for all of us Vanagon > >owners. The by-pass valve and the "anti-drain" or > anti-flow back valve is > >critical to our engine.1. The by-pass valve. You > all know that if the > >filter is clogged, and pressure built up, the > by-pass valve opens up to > >let oil through. The idea being that dirty oil is > better than no > >oil. However, the other reason for the pressure > by-pass is even more > >important. During a cold start, when the temp is > low and the oil is thick, > >it will not transverse the filter elements very > much..which builds up > >pressure. .and enough so that the by-pass valve > opens up. If it fails to > >do so, your engile bearing will be starve for oil > until the oil warms up > >enough to go through the filter. The by-pass > pressure for the Rabbit/Golf > >filter is set differently than for the one in the > Vanagon. (The Vanagon > >is lower)2. Anti-Drain/Anti-backflow valve. Here > is the CRITICAL > >difference. The Rabbit/Golf oil filter do NOT have > anti-drain > >valve. Either does most other 3rd party vendors > like FRAM, AC Delco etc. > >Filters that are meant to be mounted on it side or > at an angle will have > >the anti-drain valve. The Rabbit/Golf filter is > mount bottoms down. The > >Vanagon filter is tilted on it side. When you > leave your engine off over > >night, filters mounted on it's side or tilted will > drain all or most of > >the oil back to the sump unless there is an > anti-drain valve to keep the > >oil in the filter. Back flow will put dirt > particles back in the sump but > >MORE IMPORTANTLY, when you startup in the morning > your Vanagon will be > >starve of oil until the pump refills the filter > canister. This is why > >some of you hear banging noise in your engine for a > few minutes after you > >startup in the mornings... YOU ARE USING THE WRONG > FILTER! The anti-drain > >valve shuts off reverse flow of oil back to the > sump, thus keeping oil in > >the filter and all the upper oil passage way. In > that way, there is oil > >pressure in the bearings as soon as you restart > your engine in the > >morning. An if the pressure by-pass valve is > working, you will have > >instantaneous oil pressure in your critical engine > parts.Now, some models > >of FRAM have anti-drain back valve.. but it is just > a little plastic flap > >over the exit portal. The ones in the Mahle/Knecht > filter is a spring > >loaded metal valve. Take a pick of what filters > you want to use in your > >beloved Vanagons, but make sure it as anti-drain > back valve... and the > >by-pass pressure valve is set correctly for the > vanagon engine.Anyway, > >folks.. here it is.. do not use Rabbit/Golf filters > in your vanagons. You > >can use Vanagon oil filters in your > Rabbit/Golf.Now, I am sure some of you > >have been using Rabbit/Golf oil filters in your > Vanagons and it is still > >alive an well.. Dumb luck never hurts when owning a > Vanagon!Yau-Man Chan87 GL > > -- > David Beierl -- dbeierl@attglobal.net > Matthew Pollard <poll7356@uidaho.edu> wrote: > see the note at the bottom of the page: > http://www.volksparts.com/filters.htm

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