Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:44:58 -0800
Reply-To: Eric Spletzer <eric@SENIORNET.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Spletzer <eric@SENIORNET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Winters in the van... HYDRONIC HEAT
In-Reply-To: <200211192031.PRA48472@vmms5.verisignmail.com>
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On 11/19/02 12:31 PM, "80 Westy Pokey" <pokey@vanagon.org> wrote:
> Hydronic Heating is really great, I use it in the basement of
> my house. A few things come to mind:
>
> 1) Thermal mass: Hydronic systems rely on a thermal mass
> which they heat up. Once the mass is warm it is easier to
> keep it warm. I think you would find it difficult to
> duplicate a thermal mass on the floor of you van.
>
> Regular concrete is too heavy but hypothetically you could
> use the same lightweight self leveling concrete that is used
> in homes, but I do not know if there would be too much flex
> in the floor (ie: if it flexes too much it will crack).
Not really necessary. IPEX, one of the major Pex tubing manufacturers and
radiant heating companies makes two foot clip on metal flanges that attach
to their piping which can be used to disperse the heat.
> 2) I would not run it between the plywood, wood tends to warp
> when heated... this will mess up your floor.
A good consideration, but I think these clips also help keep the wood in
shape. (They do have preformed slabs too, which I imagine could be made in
the size of the van floor and are a plastic, but I imagine this is much more
costly.)
>
> 3) The boiler in my house separates drinking water from water
> for heat. One of the main reasons they do this is that
> Hydronic floors are generally "closed systems" that is to say
> they are filled with water and the same water is recirculated
> continuously. Because the water compeletly fills the floor
> pipes, very little pump effort is required to move the water
> along.
>
Closed system with not too much water. Probably less than 2 or 3 gallons.
(Home run on less than a fishtanks worth of water) Once the water temp is
up to speed, you don't have to move it too much either.
> 4) Typical hydronic hose is somewhat rigid, meaning it may be
> difficult to turn the hose in small enough U's for the floor
> area you are covering.
KITEC piping. It's an aluminum pex composite. Easily bendable but ups the
square footage price. Since we're dealing with a small number of square
feet, it seems like it's definitely the thing to use in the van, barring
other negating factors. (Also - I've heard since all the Pex manufacturers
now have to use a special coating which is already built into the KITEC, the
cost is about the same for the composite as it is for the normal.
>
> 5) The boiler in my house would be too big for your
> application but it has another cool feature "on demand" hot
> water. I do not have a hot water tank in my house, when I
> turn on a tap, the boiler senses the presure drop then fires
> up and heats the water up as I use it. Thusly I can never run
> out of hot water. The vanagon equivalent would be a
> www.zodi.com hot shower heater.
I'll look into this. Could be fun.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:49:42 -0800
>> From: Eric Spletzer <eric@SENIORNET.ORG>
>> Subject: Re: Winters in the van...
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who responded. Turned out to be a great
> thread.
>>
>> After attending a workshop on hydronic radiant heating this
> weekend, I'm
>> somewhat interested in the possibility of using this. I'm
> shooting from the
>> hip here - so if I'm missing something. Please let me know.
> Humor me though
>> - this could have potential.
>>
>> What if there was a submersible water heater/pump that would
> heat your water
>> to say.... 130 degrees. Not hot enough to melt your tank,
> but enough to
>> keep it really warm. This (130-140 degrees) is roughly the
> temp that goes
>> through the radiant piping in a home. Then you could use
> this pump to
>> circulate the hot water through KITEC tubing that you lay
> under your carpet
>> in the cabin.
>>
>> This is basically the concept behind a hydronic radiant
> heating system in
>> your home. If you did this in the van, it could be a
> permanent
>> installation, and all you have to do is turn on the heater
> and you serve two
>> purposes: keep your water warm and unfrozen, and heat the
> van safely at the
>> same time.
>>
>> Drawbacks I can see right now:
>> 1. The water you get from this sink would be really hot and
> I don't know if
>> you can get a pump/heater that you can use on potable
> water. (But you don't
>> really want cold water in the winter anyway.)
>> 2. To install the piping correctly, you would fill in the
> spaces in between
>> the pipes with plywood or something similar, which might
> suck in the case of
>> an accident.
>>
>> Now that said - it's not nearly as simple as an electric
> blanket or a lil
>> block heater from WalMart - but could be a realy cool (er...
> Warm) way of
>> keeping your water handy and keeping the van warm.
>>
>> Any thoughts/comments/noticeable problems with this?
>>
>> --eric
>> ----------------------
>> '85 GL Camper (Moby)
>> San Francisco, CA
--
Eric Spletzer
Webmaster
SeniorNet
121 2nd Street, 7th Floor
San Francisco, CA, 94105
"I'm convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% the way I react
to it." -- Charles Swindoll