Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:39:22 -0800
Reply-To: Brian Spisak <bspisak@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Brian Spisak <bspisak@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: DCL
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Gary,
> 1) Do you think that if I remove the pushrod cover and spray lubricant on
the outside of the gasket...
The problem I had is not the head stuck to the case, but the head stuck to
the cylinder. There's no way to get to the mating surface of cylinder to
head until you've started removing the head. If it's stuck, the bottom of
the cylinder slides out of its seat in the case exposing the offending area.
Otherwise, its sealed inside the case.
> 2) What position should the crank be in to best avoid the problem of the
cylinder pulling past the rings?
You have quite a bit of room, at least an inch (or more), at the bottom the
cylinder until the piston slips out even if its at the bottom of its stroke.
Of course, if you're working on a stuck one, put it at TDC to minimize the
risk and avoid damage to your rings. I've never worried about it and have
never had one come out accidently and I've had the cylinder exposed up to 2"
at a time. The firing order is 1-4-3-2 with the position of the rotor at 5
O'clock as you look at the engine from the back for cylinder 1. It then
moves clockwise to the rest.
> 3) If I do pull past the rings would there be any advantage to replacing
the rings?
Maybe someone else can comment on the only re-ringing one cylinder... I
suspect its not a good idea. Plus, you'll be dealing with so much crud on
the piston, that you really won't be able to do a good job cleaning the ring
groove for new rings. Clean the thing up the best you can and save the ring
job until you pull the motor and can clean the pistons properly.
> 4) Did you reuse your pushrod tubes?
Yes. You can re-expand them slightly to give them a tight fit. I even
reused the one on-engine replacement telescoping type even though it was
stuck at installed length. It didn't leak this time or last time I did
that.
> 5) How much of the exhaust system did you remove?
You almost have to pull everything but the cat and muffler. Split the two
pipes at the crossover and the front one will roll down out of the way. You
can then pull the rear one completely out after you remove the two hanger
bolts that connect it to the frame just under the muffler (and off course
its connection to the cat). The gasket where either mani-pipe meets the
cross-over is the same as the manifold (N 901 216 02) so order and extra.
Also order the cat gasket (025 251 509 A?)
You'll also probably want to disconnect the rigid water pipe where it mates
to the water pump. You'll also need this gasket extra (N 902 844 01) as its
not in the standard kit (at least the Elring one I bought). It's also a
good idea to replace the funny oil cooler hoses while you got the heads off.
They're a bear to get to otherwise. You can get these part numbers off
busdepot web-site (easier than Etka's diagram). Also check the other part
numbers as these are for a 1987 2.1.
> 6) Where did you get your new gasket and what other parts might be
replaced at the time this work is being done.
I bought mine local because I wanted them for a last minute weekend job, but
you can find them online. If you are in the Bay Area, check out
Bugformance - one in San Jose, one in Sunnyvale. The part number for the
full set is 025 198 009 B and its cheaper than buying each head set
seperately even though you get a few extra seals. Around $100.
Good luck,
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: "gary hradek" <hradek@yahoo.com>
To: "Vanagon Mailing List" <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
Cc: <bspisak@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 9:24 AM
Subject: DCL
> Brian,
> I am at the early stages of the dreaded coolant
> leakon the right side. Since things are fresh in your
> mind I have a few questions. 1)Do you think that if
> I remove the pushrod cover and spray lubricant on the
> outside of the gasket and drive the van, repeating
> this procedure many times, not getting the van too
> hot that I can increase my chances of pulling the head
> from the cylinder. Kind of a rust buster approach?
> 2) What position should the crank be in to best avoid
> the problem of the cylinder pulling past the rings?
> 3) If I do pull past the rings would there be any
> advantage to replacing the rings?
> 4) Did you reuse your pushrod tubes?
> 5) How much of the exhaust system did you remove?
> 6) Where did you get your new gasket and what other
> parts might be replaced at the time this work is being
> done. any help appreciated, thanks gary
>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:16:54 -0800
> From: Brian Spisak <bspisak@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Success! (Cylinder install after removal
> stuck to head)
>
> I sit here elated less than 5 minutes after
> resinstalling my cylinder
> after
> I removed it from the engine stuck to my head. After
> reading the
> archives,
> I was lead to believe that this was a near impossible
> task to perform,
> especially on the smaller clearance number 1 or 4
> cyclinders. Maybe I
> got
> lucky, but I must say that the 20 minutes it took to
> do is by far a
> much
> better option than struggling trying to get the
> cylinder unstuck over
> the
> course of 3 days. I still wouldn't recommend pulling
> the cylinder
> unless it
> is truly stuck, so do your best, but if worst comes to
> worst, don't be
> afraid to give this method a shot. (To free my
> cylinder, even with out
> on
> the bench, I had to heat the head with a torch, and
> slam the thing with
> a
> heavy mallet - ouch!)
>
> For those who might benefit in the future here's how
> it worked:
>
> Buy a plier type ring compressor set. You can get
> these on eBay for
> under
> $30 or you can buy an expensive name brand. I used
> the cheap eBay
> ones, and
> the only thing I caution is not to over-tighten the
> band as they will
> crack
> if you do. I was using a size too big, so it didn't
> stop the job. I
> ended
> up using the 3-3/8 - 3-5/8 size.
>
> Get the piston TDC. Clean the piston and rings.
> Offset the rings 90
> degrees. Position the band so that its ears are
> between the top and
> bottom
> head bolts in the center of the block. This allows
> you to put the
> pliers on
> and angle them out of the way of the cylinder as you
> push it on. Pull
> the
> adjacent cyclinder just out of its seat so you can get
> a little play in
> it.
> You'll need all the room you can get for the cylinder
> to clear the
> pliers!
> Clamp the band down, leaving the top edge of the
> piston exposed to get
> the
> cylinder started. If one side of your pliers is lower
> profile than the
> other, make sure this side is toward the piston. (The
> pivot bolt on my
> protruded more on one side and interferred just enough
> that I had to
> reverse
> them.) Push the cylinder on slowly checking top and
> bottom to make
> sure the
> rings are compressed and sliding in. Once the
> cylinder hits the
> pliers, it
> gets tight, and you have to bump the cylinder gently
> in. I resisted
> using a
> mallet, and instead used the palm of my hand to avoid
> damaging the
> rings if
> they were hung up. As long as it keeps moving you are
> fine. Push the
> cylinder on just to the point the bottom ring is
> inside. To get the
> band
> off, I had to push it to the bottom of the cylinder
> until I could push
> the
> ear of the band in enough to clear the head bolt. If
> the cylinder were
> down
> any farther than it was, I couldn't have got it out.
> Once one of the
> ears
> of the compressor band is past the head bolt, you can
> expand it enough
> (just
> barely!) to get it to slide over the entire cylinder
> to get it out.
>
> Go here to see my diagram of where to position the
> band.
> http://www.geocities.com/bsassone/vanagon/ringband.bmp
>
> Brian
>
>
>
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