Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:47:41 -0800
Reply-To: warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: AW: Is propane more dense in cold weather?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm pretty sure we are talking about gallons. The customer before me came in to get a 5 gallon tank filled with 7 gallons.
I know the tanks were empty, I only filled one, and at 1.49 per gallon the price came to $6.26 (no tax) for 4.2 gallons.
I thought it was a little high , they gave the receipt that showed 4.2 gallons, and when i pointed out my tank should'nt be filled beyond 2.8 gallons, they charged me for 2.8 gallons and gave me a refund.
I thought that was kind of strange, that they gave me a refund even though the pump and the receipt both showed 4.2 gallons. Where do they overfill your Vanagon gas tank by a gallon or two and offer a refund ?
They don't sell by the pound in Washington and Oregon, and I have not been charged by the pound anywhere yet.
As all have pointed out, the expansion/contraction of liquid propane isn't significant to make a 1.4 gallon difference.
The location of this station if any of you happen to pass that way is the Union 76 station in Springfield , Oregon, just off of I-5 at the beginning of the Beltline freeway, across from the ARCO there.
Does it sound like something fishy could be going on?
Robert K
1982 Westfalia
Harald wrote:
<<Robert,
Well, I don't have any propane-ology credentials, but I can tell you something.
4.2 gallons in your little propane tank? That's the most incredible thing I
have ever heard. Better stand back, far back, because it's going to blow.
Just kidding, of course. ;-)
There is no way they put 4.2 gallons in there.
Propane expands 1.5% for each 10 deg. Fahrenheit temperature rise.
So if your tank holds 3 gallons at 70 deg. F, then at 40 deg F, Seattle temp,
it holds 4.5% more. As it gets cooler, it contracts a little.
Take off 20% for expansion, and you're somewhere around 2.7 gallons.
Basically the expansion/contraction of propane due to temperature change
is negligible.
In practical experience, I filled my propane tank in mid-winter at
sub-freezing as well as mid-summer Arizona heat, and I have not noticed a significant difference in quantity.
One thing I did encounter was minimum propane filling charges in California,
at $5.00 min., even when I got only 1 gallon. That's why I installed a second
propane tank.
Harald
'90 westy>>
Robert wrote:
Hello propane professors-
Here is a question for you: is propane more dense in cold weather than warm? Dense enough at 40 degrees F to fill the standard Vanagon Westfalia propane tank to 4.2 gallons?
I have been filling my pair of Westy propane tanks year round for six years, and never has anyone put in 4.2 gallons of propane. I'm well-read on all the safety warnings about not filling a tank more than 80%.
I watched the attendant fill the tank, and he stopped filling when gas began venting from the 80% valve.
This is a 3 gallon tank, and filling it 80% is about 2.8 gallons. How did they get 4.2 gallons in the tank? I told the manager and they said the meter was recently calibrated. they proved they reset the meter before filling my tank.
I notice nothing unusual about my stove or heater functions.
Then another employee told me that the fuel is denser in the winter and so the tank holds more.
News to me. I expect either dire warnings from you to either let out the excess, or that this 76 station is in big trouble.
Robert
1982 Westfalia
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