Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:02:45 -0800
Reply-To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Wasserboxer Reputation . long
In-Reply-To: <KJX95DAROTB7D84WMJLG2D0981YDC.3df54f96@lionia>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I must disagree about 1980 - 1990 Honda, Toyota, etc. engines being a class
above the WBX. The fact that many of these manufacturers where still using
carburetors during this time frame is enough to condemn them in a technology
debate.
I agree that VW had many issues in the past, bad management being one of
them, however, the idea of a water-cooled rear engine vehicle was not one
(just ask Porsche). When VW decided to "kill off" the T3 (Vanagon in U.S.),
there was an uproar in Germany. The T3 was, and still is, an extremely
popular vehicle among business and general public. The only reason VW went
to the T4 (i.e., Eurovan) was to maximize parts reuse. The T4 used the same
drivetrain as many other VW models, thus saving VW money through economies
of scale. The almight dollar-mark-yen-euro was the only reason VW stopped
producing T3's, it had nothing to do with technology, and absolutely nothing
to do with public opinion.
Viel Spass,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of Leon Korkin
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 6:21 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Wasserboxer Reputation . long
Agree with most of your realistic facts post.
But
"A well maintained WBX will give it's owner well over 100,000
>miles of service without any more trouble than any other water-cooled
engine
>(e.g., Honda, Toyota, etc.)."
This is a stretch. Honda, Toyota, Subaru or Nissan engines are class above
wasserboxer of the era(1980-1990)
in reliability, quality and longevity. No "dreaded syndroms", endless leaks
or cheap wiring or plastic there.
Just sold my old Nissan truck with 180,000 miles on the clock, half of it on
bad dirt roads.
Still run like new. In fact this is not unusual. That's what's expected.
With Vanagon it's luck even if it's well maintained. Cut corner engineering.
In my opinion result of horrendously incompetent management.
Good thing VW woke up sometime ago, kicked some asses and was able to revive
company and
make it what it is now, well run and competitive and producing good
vehicles.
I think VW should never make Vanagons with rear watercooled engine and
instead
design Vanagon with front engine right then in 1980. With some real power.
And never use that ugly Eurovan name.
Leon
12/9/02 12:29:31 PM, Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM> wrote:
>I thought I might throw in my two cents worth...
>
>#1. As with most things, I look at the market to determine worth and
value.
>>From my observations, water-cooled Vanagons (incl. Westphalia's) sell for
>substantially more than their air-cooled counterparts. For example, I have
>an '83 air-cooled Westy I can't give away (okay, give away is probably
>wrong, but I get no interest when advertised for $2500).
>
>#2. I frequent the local auto auctions, good running air-cooled Vanagons
>often sell for less than $250, and even then, the auctioneers almost have
to
>beg for bids. Good running wasserboxers sell for much, much more, often
>breaking $1500, even for an old 1984. I also attend the local insurance
>auctions, and local dismantlers DO NOT want air-cooled Vanagons (with the
>exception of Westy's), apparently most them go directly to the crusher.
>
>#3. I've been working on VW's since the early 70's and I'll take a
properly
>rebuilt wasserboxer motor over an equally rebuilt air-cooled motor any and
>every day. The biggest problem with the WBX has been
>owners, or mechanics, who didn't understand how to maintain the WBX. Too
>many WBX's that had the wrong coolant or didn't have the cooling systems
>serviced when required developed leaky head gaskets, which in turn gave the
>motor a bad reputation. Additionally, you have owners and mechanics who do
>"cheap fixes" (i.e., JB Welding the cylinder head or putting Bars-Leak in
to
>seal leaks), and then complain when it doesn't work and they have to do it
>right the next time.
>
>#4. Vehicles progress with time. The air-cooled motor was great in it's
>time. Unfortunately, emissions, reliability and power requirements meant
>the end of the air-cooled motor in newer vehicles. Also, and unfortunately
>as well, with progress the price tends to go up. This is true for any
>vehicle, a 1999 Golf engine will cost you a lot more to repair than a 1985
>Golf, just as a 2.1 liter WBX will cost more to repair than a 1.6 liter
type
>1 engine.
>
>
>These are just my opinions and observations and not meant to be a personal
>attack on anyone or the beginning of a religious crusade. Everyone has
>different experiences and these experiences will shape our opinions. I've
>had excellent luck with both air-cooled and water-cooled Vanagons, it just
>happens I now prefer the wasserboxer. Who knows, perhaps some day I'll put
>a Subaru motor in one of my Vanagons and then I'll become an evangelist for
>engine conversions. Till then, I'll continue to be happy with my WBX's.
>
>BTW: Stan Wilder... if you every have problems finding used parts for that
>air-cooled engine, I know plenty of places that have piles of air-cooled
>Vanagon parts...
>
>Jeff
>'83 Westy (air-cooled)
>'84 L
>'85 GL
>'87 GL
>'88 Wolfsburg
>
>
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