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Date:         Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:41:29 -0800
Reply-To:     David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Thanks RE: Photo ticket at stop lights
Comments: To: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <F1304Ni6mC5kTJHqfbP00026a75@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

This also comes down to other issues as well. Say you are turning left and you enter the intersection while the light is green and come to a stop... it turns yellow and when the last straggler is through the intersection you then complete your turn and off you go. Usually at this time it is a red light and the other traffic is waiting for me to get out of the way. Am I in the wrong - do I deserve a ticket for being in the intersection during the red light (seeing how I entered when it was green)?

Because of this example I agree with what Robert is saying... dumb cameras suck... you need cameras that record a series of pictures - say on a hard drive - it records from one second prior to the light turning yellow, the whole time it is yellow and it any movement is detected if it is red. Put a 100GB hard drive in there and you are set! This is the smart way to monitor everything.

Here in Quesnel, when I used to work for ABC Communications, I helped design a camera system that monitors the very long foot traffic bridge that crosses the Fraser River for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. When there is movement, one of two cameras will be recording you. Where there is no movement, it doesn't record. All pictures are saved as a 640x480 JPG file (with the correct time and date) on to a large hard drive. At the end of the day - the files are taken and recorded onto a DAT tape. Since the camera system has been installed the public has cried BIG BROTHER and some have challenged the system in court as an invasion of privacy. BUT... since it has been installed, assaults on the bridge have dropped over 70% and it has stopped a lot of suicides from people jumping off of the bridge... KEEP IT THERE, PLEASE! I wonder how many people realise that every time to fuel up you are recorded, every time you go to 7-11 or any other convenience store or fast food restaurant you are recorded - every time you go to an ATM you are recorded - every time you visit Fast Forward..... you guessed it!

The point - dumb cameras are a vending machines for the government. Smart cameras that show the whole story and catch the real bad people.

David Marshall

Fast Forward Automotive Inc. 4356 Quesnel Hixon Road Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3

http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160

- Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions - Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation - European Lighting for most Volkswagen models

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf Of Robert Keezer Sent: December 13, 2002 10:58 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Thanks RE: Photo ticket at stop lights

Think of the cameras as law enforcement vending machines. I have seen people pulled over for speeding- never for a yellow light. Signals are timed to delay the crosstraffic green light any way, so the real danger is running the red light when it was red before you enter the intersection.

But the yellow lights switch to red at different intervals, which is why so many of these cases are dimissed. A more accurate way of photo radar would be the picture taken by the side. But this is'nt done because of vehicles different lenghts.You would have to use multiple cameras.

And in the case of trucks- it's far safer to go thru the intersection than it is to slam on the brakes and jacknife. In other words, the camera isn't able to take into account the lenght of the vehicle, and the length of the lens effects the reading also.

The camera is set to photo the license plate as soon as the light turns red. And since the yellow light can be adjusted to turn off earlier than say at another intersection the next block over, if you have lived there a long time, you know the light's timing. When the put in the photo radar, they alter the timing.

When were the courts ever jammed with yellow light runners?

The majority of police calls are domestic violence (couples fighting over the photo-radar tickets they got in the Diesel Vanagon!!)

Robert 1982 Westfalia

>Sean Wrote: > >If I felt I was guilty I would not have made this post. >Sean > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Steven Fish [mailto:fish@salzburg.co.at] > > Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 11:13 AM > > To: Sean Garrett; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Subject: Re: Thanks RE: Photo ticket at stop lights > > > > > >Robert Steven Fish Wrote:

I have one simple question for you..... > > > > Did you go through the yellow (or red) light? > > > > If the answer is yes, then pay your ticket, learn your > > lesson, admit that > > you made a mistake, stop trying to pretend that the entire > > government is > > corrupt, and spying on you, and out to cash in on your > > innocent and harmless > > actions. > > > > There is a reason why they install those cameras which take > > photos of the > > cars who run yellow (or red). The reason is that many > > innocent men, women, > > and children are killed each year by folks who are in a > > hurry, and speed up > > at the yellow. There is a trend towards ever increasingly > > aggresive driving > > and road rage in the States... while the crime rate is also > > so high, that > > hte police force is busy 24-7 catching the rapists, murders, > > and high school > > kids killing their teachers. There simply are not enough > > resources for a 30 > > minute personal ticket giving ceremony for running a light. > > > > Here we have radar boxes both in the sities and on the > > autobahns and when > > you get a ticket, you pay it, and people do not really freak. > > We are not > > living in a totalitarian, nor "Orwellian" society here > > either... it's just > > that Europeans tend to be a tad more responsible for their > > actions than > > perhaps residents of some other countries. > > > > Now, having said all that.... if you did not run the yellow, > > then fight it. > > > > Good Luck with whichever you choose to do! > > > > RSF > > > > PS. Most lights these days are controlled by traffic, and > > weight or other > > sensors... so your timing it by using the clock may not do much good. > > > > IMPORTANT!!! In order to reply to me, you must have the word "FISH" > > somewhere in the subject line of the email. Otherwise it > > goes directly in > > the trash. > > > > <º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{ > > > > Robert S. Fish > > Salzburg, Austria > > 1987 Wolfsburg Vanagon 2.1 GL Weekender > > 1987 Golf Cabriolet > > 1991 Golf > > > >

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