Date:         Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:42:58 -0800
Reply-To:     Jack <john.cook58@VERIZON.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jack <john.cook58@VERIZON.NET>
Subject:      Re: How long should the yellow be?
In-Reply-To:  <F88Kn8cinJXDykCP2xE00000658@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 14 Dec 2002, at 17:31, Mike Finkbiner wrote:

> "Jack" <john.cook58@verizon.net> said -
>
> >  Since this discussion seems to revolve about the duration of the yellow

snip

> Over that last year Car & Driver has run a couple of articles on the
> subject.  Their contention is that cities have had good results by
> lengthening the yellow from 3 to 5 seconds.  They also claim that the
> contracts several cities have signed  with intersection camera firms
> specifically outlaw lengthening the duration.  Sounds like revenue
> generation rather than accident prevention to me.

Agreed.  I think any equipment/service contract which is based on a
percentage of fines is wrong since revenue then becomes the major
controlling factor.

I was hoping there might be someone on the list who's familiar with real
life traffic engineering within a metro area.  Again, it seems like there
should be some sort of guidelines as to how long a yellow should be for
safety (based on speeds, road conditions, etc.).  Or is the cynical view
that safety is ignored for revenue purposes what really happens?  I have
noted that yellows along some higher speed roadways are much longer than
on some other roads (California).

> I hate people who run red lights, but I don't feel that a camera which just
> takes a snapshot is the best way to solve the problem of accidents.  The
> rear-end collision rate has gone up some places, which a longer duration
> yellow should not do.  Multiple pictures makes a lot more sense.
>
> It does seem that some traffice enforcement methods are more for generating
> revenue than reducing the accident rate.
>
> I would much rather see the police ticketing people who drive erratically
> in traffic, don't signal, and drive through red lights instead of just
> sitting on a rural highway with a radar gun.

Mostly agreed.  But I think you have to acknowledge that a lot of people
will speed up when they see a yellow in order to try to make it all the
way through an intersection before it turns red (i.e., they presumably
enter the intersection on a yellow).  I see it every day.  And it's a
dangerous thing to do. I can't see how increasing the yellow's duration
will reduce that problem.  I've been told that some officers will
automatically issue a citation if they observe a driver accelerating to
make a yellow light.

Now when you mix that with drivers who will slow down & prepare to stop
when they see a yellow (can you imagine that?), you have a dangerous mix.
Rear-enders happen because of that mix & they can be bad ones.  It
apparently gets worse (my assumption) when people learn there's a camera
at a given intersection & make bad decisions to stop when they shouldn't.

//Jack