Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:45:27 -0700
Reply-To: Ben McCafferty <ben@VOLKSCAFE.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Ben McCafferty <ben@VOLKSCAFE.COM>
Subject: Re: Manipulated auctions,
was: Re: Does this bidding look fish yto you?
In-Reply-To: <CAEOIPKOOCKNBBDDDMBPCECBCIAA.jeff@tssgi.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I'll concede that one!!! Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these guys
aren't sleazebags, just that we as buyers have the responsibility to say,
"Hmmm, something's fishy here," and stop bidding. Like it or not, the
responsibility is on the buyer.
Have a great weekend.
bmc :)
Ben McCafferty
ben@volkscafe.com
Volks Cafe
1823 Soquel Avenue
Santa Cruz, CA 95062
831-426-1244
http://www.volkscafe.com
> From: "Jeffrey Schwaia" <jeff@tssgi.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:36:10 -0800
> To: "Ben McCafferty" <ben@volkscafe.com>, <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: RE: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish yto
> you?
>
>
> True, but nobody ever said that ethics and free market go together...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben McCafferty [mailto:ben@volkscafe.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:29 PM
> To: Jeffrey Schwaia; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish
> yto you?
>
>
> Hmmmmm, interesting scenarios, but in both cases, the buyer still paid what
> they were willing to pay, no more, no less. Now, I personally wouldn't do
> this on an item I was selling, but I do see that the laws of free market
> still apply, and the seller risks losing the sale by driving up the price
> artificially. Interesting.....
> bmc :)
> Ben McCafferty
> ben@volkscafe.com
>
> Volks Cafe
> 1823 Soquel Avenue
> Santa Cruz, CA 95062
> 831-426-1244
> http://www.volkscafe.com
>
>
>> From: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
>> Reply-To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
>> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:35:51 -0800
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish y
> to
>> you?
>>
>> You're a brave man...
>>
>> The only exception to your argument would be when there is only one actual
>> bidder. In this case, the bidder could've paid substantially less without
>> the shill bidding. Obviously, the real bidder was willing to pay more,
> but
>> is it ethical that the seller drove the price up through shill bidding?
>>
>> Additionally, I've heard tale of sellers who will shill bid beyond the
>> highest real bidder and then contact the real bidder after the auction to
>> offer the item because the "winning bidder" did not complete the
>> transaction.
>>
>> It's an interesting topic but will probably be killed due to lack of
> Vanagon
>> content.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
>> Of Ben McCafferty
>> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:33 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to
>> you?
>>
>>
>> Since we're on the subject, and it's Friday, I'd like to throw out a
>> *radical* notion for discussion. I will assert that: It is impossible to
>> manipulate an auction.
>>
>> Our ol' pal Mr. Smith said that supply and demand will always equalize.
> My
>> thought here is that if a seller uses bogus accounts to push up the price,
>> and real buyers bid higher anyway, they were willing to pay the higher
> price
>> and outbid the bogus buyers.
>>
>> "What the market will bear" is still defined by what a real buyer is
> willing
>> to part with. If the seller's bogus buyer drives the price up too high,
> the
>> real buyers will balk and walk away.
>>
>> Donning asbestos suit....
>> bmc :)
>>
>> Ben McCafferty
>> ben@volkscafe.com
>>
>> Volks Cafe
>> 1823 Soquel Avenue
>> Santa Cruz, CA 95062
>> 831-426-1244
>> http://www.volkscafe.com
>>
>>
>>> From: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>> Reply-To: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:28:58 -0800
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to you?
>>>
>>> Looks fine to me. The top 3 bidders have been E*bay members for several
>>> years. Out of 18 unique bidders, only 3 had zero feedback. Did you think
>>> your $1100 bid 10 days before the auction ended had even the remotest
>>> chance of winning a decent Syncro Westy? He said right in the ad that
>>> the reserve was $10,000.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> 80 Westy Pokey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I put an early bid in on a Syncro on eBay so I was following
>>>> the auction. Check out:
>>>>
>>>> http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
>>>> ViewBids&item=1876285309
>>>>
>>>> Seems like a high price, and lots of zero feedback bidders
>>>> pushing it up...
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> Chris
|