Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:35:23 -0800
Reply-To: "Paul A. Blouin" <pablouin@OREGONCOAST.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Paul A. Blouin" <pablouin@OREGONCOAST.COM>
Subject: Re: rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Who rebuilt it?
I just had mine done by "Fast German Auto last week. So far, so great.
----- Original Message -----
From: "zampano" <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 9:21 PM
Subject: rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
> Hi Vanagonites
>
> I have owned a my Vanagon ('84 WBX Wolfy) for about three years now,
> bought it with 125000 mi on the odo. After 2 years of intermittent
> quirks and failures it overheated last Feb for the last time and I
> decided to get me a rebuild. I opted for a rather highly recommended
> (internet, mail lists etc.) outfit here in SoCal.
> I installed the engine myself in late march, along with all new
> peripherals: Radiator, coolant pump, thermostat, thermo-time switch,
> fuel pump, filter, pressure diaphragm, all new radiator and fuel hoses
> (in engine compartment) yada yada. I had done this before on a rabbit,
> an Alfa Romeo and several motorcycles.
> I then broke it in (never over 3500 rpms, no load etc.) for 1500 miles,
> changed the oil, had my regular mechanic service it (mostly just oil
> changes, except the replacement of disintegrated driveaxles), with all
> the recommended oil changes.
>
> Anyhow, two weeks ago it started acting up, after not having any
> problem (Except driveaxles) for 10000 miles. The temp indicator
> suddenly rose all the way to the top, stay there for 10 seconds, with
> the LED flashing, and then went back down. It did that for couple more
> times the next two days, a very short lasting occurence. Each time I
> checked the coolant, hot and cold, and nothing was missing. On the 3rd
> day I noticed the temp indicator sit on or around the LED, whereas
> before it never climbed past 1/3. I drove the car to the side
> eventually and let it cool down. Then filled it up with water, bled the
> radiator on an incline and still it stayed around or past the LED. So I
> drove home, With the temp gauge LED suddenly, intermittently flashing,
> again for just a short time (seconds), sometimes accompanied by a
> climbing needle. However, during all these incidents the coolant temp
> needle never went all the way to the top, just about 7/10. Also, there
> was never any coolant in vaporized or liquid form escaping from
> anywhere. Never.
>
> The bloody head gaskets, I was thinking. Again?? After such a short
> time??
>
> I turned it off at home, checked the coolant, after it "chilled out" a
> bit, and found it nearly filled. I shut the hatch and called it a day.
>
> The next morning it wouldn't start at all. So I pull the injectors and
> the plugs- a-ok.
> I then proceed to do a compression test on all cyls and, much to my
> dismay, I found they all had 0 (ZEEERO) compression. Valves bent/shot
> (new AMC heads from Spain, installed by the rebuilder) or piston rings
> burned up I thought. Darn!! Called AAA, Plus, thank you, and had it
> towed to my mechanic. Outrageous engine failure he diagnosed, too.
> Called AAA again and had it towed 80 miles to the shop who did the
> rebuild.
>
> They pulled the engine and took it completely apart, including bottom
> end. I finally went over there yesterday and took a look for myself,
> though I didn't check the numbers on the case to see if it was really
> mine. Their tech showed me the heads and pointed out that they were
> completely corroded (at the mating surface, where the gasket goes
> between head and block): There was a seam running all around, when
> touched would feel like 3 days of not shaving (The chin, not my toes).
> I was flabbergasted.
>
> I then got into an argument with both the tech and the shop owner. They
> insisted that it was due to improper coolant, and there being too much
> H2O in the mix. I explained to them that the high H2O content was due
> to me filling it with water two days ago, as an emergency on the road
> and that before that I always kept an eye on the coolant as well as the
> rest of the engine. Especially since I was planning on going to the
> mountains over the holidays. I personally filled it with Prestone
> without the phosphate, the orange stuff, not the green, when I
> installed the engine, properly bled the system, never had any problems,
> and 1 month ago ( 2 weeks before final breakdown) actually checked it
> with a coolant tester from Pep Boys, which resulted in a 50% mix
> result. I ended up never going to the mountains.
> They both insisted that I should have used the original VW factory
> coolant, went off about electrolysis being the only proper way to test
> it and that my failure in doing so voided the warranty. The orange
> stuff wouldn't do the trick.
>
> At the time, the rebuilder gave me 12 months warranty or 12000 miles,
> detailed on a separate instruction sheet, with all kinds of
> instructions and a inspection sheet on the back of it for a certified
> VW mechanic to check the workmanship of the installation and overall
> condition of the engine compartment and related accessories upon my
> having installed it. My mechanic did this when he changed the oil after
> break in and couldn't find anything wrong. He also did a tune up
> (advanced thereby the timing more than spec, on my recommendation). He
> did the follow up oil changes (every 2500-3000 miles) also. The Vanagon
> never failed me since it got the rebuild. Never got hot past the LED,
> and I think I can count on my two hands the times the radiator fan came
> on. It ran like a champ, getting 16 mpg city and 20 hwy. I was happy.
>
> What gives??? Could something like this really happen ? And is it
> really because of me using Prestone instead of VW phosphate free
> coolant?? If so, then screw German engineering, big time. How come I
> could put 24000 miles on the old tired stock engine with the green
> stuff, with her overheating and blowing hoses on a beserker basis??
>
> If this is so important, then why didn't the rebuilder point it out, IN
> BIG FAT LETTERS that there is no other coolant to be used except VW's
> product, jawohl???
>
> Nein Danke!!
>
> Anyhow, since I hate arguing I stopped, and left the place telling them
> to let me know how much it will cost to fix. I told them I would be
> willing to spend $1000 to get her back together, with another 12/12000
> Warranty. Else, the old girl should perish to WBX hell. The owners said
> they were gonna call me, because it might cost more since I might need
> more parts replaced.
>
> Whatever!! So I left and havent' heard from them. It seems like that
> legally it would be easy for them to get out of ANY responsibilty based
> on me having installed the engine myself. My mechanic says it is their
> fault.
>
> Or am I wrong and this could really happen just because of the
> coolant???
>
>
> Cheers and Happy Trails
>
> Let me know what you think...
>
> Matt
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