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Date:         Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:29:04 -0700
Reply-To:     Ben McCafferty <ben@VOLKSCAFE.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Ben McCafferty <ben@VOLKSCAFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Manipulated auctions,
              was:  Re: Does this bidding look fish y to you?
Comments: To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CAEOIPKOOCKNBBDDDMBPMEBOCIAA.jeff@tssgi.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hmmmmm, interesting scenarios, but in both cases, the buyer still paid what they were willing to pay, no more, no less. Now, I personally wouldn't do this on an item I was selling, but I do see that the laws of free market still apply, and the seller risks losing the sale by driving up the price artificially. Interesting..... bmc :) Ben McCafferty ben@volkscafe.com

Volks Cafe 1823 Soquel Avenue Santa Cruz, CA 95062 831-426-1244 http://www.volkscafe.com

> From: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM> > Reply-To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM> > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:35:51 -0800 > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to > you? > > You're a brave man... > > The only exception to your argument would be when there is only one actual > bidder. In this case, the bidder could've paid substantially less without > the shill bidding. Obviously, the real bidder was willing to pay more, but > is it ethical that the seller drove the price up through shill bidding? > > Additionally, I've heard tale of sellers who will shill bid beyond the > highest real bidder and then contact the real bidder after the auction to > offer the item because the "winning bidder" did not complete the > transaction. > > It's an interesting topic but will probably be killed due to lack of Vanagon > content. > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf > Of Ben McCafferty > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:33 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to > you? > > > Since we're on the subject, and it's Friday, I'd like to throw out a > *radical* notion for discussion. I will assert that: It is impossible to > manipulate an auction. > > Our ol' pal Mr. Smith said that supply and demand will always equalize. My > thought here is that if a seller uses bogus accounts to push up the price, > and real buyers bid higher anyway, they were willing to pay the higher price > and outbid the bogus buyers. > > "What the market will bear" is still defined by what a real buyer is willing > to part with. If the seller's bogus buyer drives the price up too high, the > real buyers will balk and walk away. > > Donning asbestos suit.... > bmc :) > > Ben McCafferty > ben@volkscafe.com > > Volks Cafe > 1823 Soquel Avenue > Santa Cruz, CA 95062 > 831-426-1244 > http://www.volkscafe.com > > >> From: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET> >> Reply-To: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET> >> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:28:58 -0800 >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to you? >> >> Looks fine to me. The top 3 bidders have been E*bay members for several >> years. Out of 18 unique bidders, only 3 had zero feedback. Did you think >> your $1100 bid 10 days before the auction ended had even the remotest >> chance of winning a decent Syncro Westy? He said right in the ad that >> the reserve was $10,000. >> >> Mark >> >> 80 Westy Pokey wrote: >>> >>> I put an early bid in on a Syncro on eBay so I was following >>> the auction. Check out: >>> >>> http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? >>> ViewBids&item=1876285309 >>> >>> Seems like a high price, and lots of zero feedback bidders >>> pushing it up... >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> Chris


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