Date:         Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:21:16 -0800
Reply-To:     zampano <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         zampano <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM>
Subject:      rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Hi Vanagonites

I have owned a my Vanagon ('84 WBX Wolfy) for about three years now,
bought it with 125000 mi on the odo. After 2 years of intermittent
quirks and failures it overheated last Feb for the last time and I
decided to get me a rebuild. I opted for a rather highly recommended
(internet, mail lists etc.) outfit here in SoCal.
I installed the engine myself in late march, along with all new
peripherals: Radiator, coolant pump, thermostat, thermo-time switch,
fuel pump, filter, pressure diaphragm, all new radiator and fuel hoses
(in engine compartment) yada yada. I had done this before on a rabbit,
an Alfa Romeo and several motorcycles.
I then broke it in (never over 3500 rpms, no load etc.) for 1500 miles,
changed the oil, had my regular mechanic service it (mostly just oil
changes, except the replacement of disintegrated driveaxles), with all
the recommended oil changes.

Anyhow, two weeks ago it started acting up, after not having any
problem (Except driveaxles) for 10000 miles. The temp indicator
suddenly rose all the way to the top, stay there for 10 seconds, with
the LED flashing, and then went back down. It did that for couple more
times the next two days, a very short lasting occurence. Each time I
checked the coolant, hot and cold, and nothing was missing. On the 3rd
day I noticed the temp indicator sit on or around the LED, whereas
before it never climbed past  1/3. I drove the car to the side
eventually and let it cool down. Then filled it up with water, bled the
radiator on an incline and still it stayed around or past the LED. So I
drove home, With the temp gauge LED suddenly, intermittently flashing,
again for just a short time (seconds), sometimes accompanied by a
climbing needle. However, during all these incidents the coolant temp
needle never went all the way to the top, just about 7/10. Also, there
was never any coolant in vaporized or liquid form escaping from
anywhere. Never.

The bloody head gaskets, I was thinking. Again?? After such a short
time??

I turned it off at home, checked the coolant, after it "chilled out" a
bit, and found it nearly filled. I shut the hatch and called it a day.

The next morning it wouldn't start at all. So I pull the injectors and
the plugs- a-ok.
I then proceed to do a compression test on all cyls and, much to my
dismay, I found they all had 0 (ZEEERO) compression. Valves bent/shot
(new AMC heads from Spain, installed by the rebuilder) or piston rings
burned up I thought. Darn!! Called AAA, Plus, thank you, and had it
towed to my mechanic. Outrageous engine failure he diagnosed, too.
Called AAA again and had it towed 80 miles to the shop who did the
rebuild.

They pulled the engine and took it completely apart, including bottom
end. I finally went over there yesterday and took a look for myself,
though I didn't check the numbers on the case to see if it was really
mine. Their tech showed me the heads and pointed out that they were
completely corroded (at the mating surface, where the gasket goes
between head and block): There was a seam running all around, when
touched would feel like 3 days of not shaving (The chin, not my toes).
I was flabbergasted.

I then got into an argument with both the tech and the shop owner. They
insisted that it was due to improper coolant, and there being too much
H2O in the mix. I explained to them that the high H2O content was due
to me filling it with water two days ago, as an emergency on the road
and that before that I always kept an eye on the coolant as well as the
rest of the engine. Especially since I was planning on going to the
mountains over the holidays. I personally filled it with Prestone
without the phosphate, the orange stuff, not the green, when I
installed the engine, properly bled the system, never had any problems,
and 1 month ago ( 2 weeks before final breakdown) actually checked it
with a coolant tester from Pep Boys, which resulted in a 50% mix
result. I ended up never going to the mountains.
They both insisted that I should have used the original VW factory
coolant, went off about electrolysis being the only proper way to test
it and that my failure in doing so voided the warranty. The orange
stuff wouldn't do the trick.

At the time, the rebuilder gave me 12 months warranty or 12000 miles,
detailed on a separate instruction sheet, with all kinds of
instructions and a inspection sheet on the back of it for a certified
VW mechanic to check the workmanship of the installation and overall
condition of the engine compartment and related accessories upon my
having installed it. My mechanic did this when he changed the oil after
break in and couldn't find anything wrong. He also did a tune up
(advanced thereby the timing more than spec, on my recommendation). He
did the follow up oil changes (every 2500-3000 miles) also. The Vanagon
never failed me since it got the rebuild. Never got hot past the LED,
and I think I can count on my two hands the times the radiator fan came
on. It ran like a champ, getting 16 mpg city and 20 hwy. I was happy.

What gives??? Could something like this really happen ?  And is it
really because of me using Prestone instead of VW phosphate free
coolant?? If so, then screw German engineering, big time. How come I
could put 24000 miles on the old tired stock engine with the green
stuff, with her overheating and blowing hoses on a beserker basis??

If this is so important, then why didn't the rebuilder point it out, IN
BIG FAT LETTERS that there is no other coolant to be used except VW's
product, jawohl???

Nein Danke!!

Anyhow, since I hate arguing I stopped, and left the place telling them
to let me know how much it will cost to fix. I told them I would be
willing to spend $1000 to get her back together, with another 12/12000
Warranty. Else, the old girl should perish to WBX hell. The owners said
they were gonna call me, because it might cost more since I might need
more parts replaced.

Whatever!! So I left and havent' heard from them. It seems like that
legally it would be easy for them to get out of ANY responsibilty based
on me having installed the engine myself. My mechanic says it is their
fault.

Or am I wrong and this could really happen just because of the
coolant???


Cheers and Happy Trails

Let me know what you think...

Matt