Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:30:47 -0800
Reply-To: Zoran Mladen <zmaninco@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Zoran Mladen <zmaninco@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
In-Reply-To: <8255ECD5-2524-11D7-9E7C-003065D2C542@attbi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I think you are getting taken. I can't believe that
you would see that type of corrossion on new heads in
such a short time. I;ve worked on many WBX engines,
and there is always corrossion, but never to the
extent in the time period you refer to - perhaps after
60-70k.
That being said, I do agree with the tech that VW
original coolant is the best. Its the only thing I
use. Taking apart an engine that has run on it after
many years is a beautiful thing - no corrossion.
Z
--- zampano <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM> wrote:
> Hi Vanagonites
>
> I have owned a my Vanagon ('84 WBX Wolfy) for about
> three years now,
> bought it with 125000 mi on the odo. After 2 years
> of intermittent
> quirks and failures it overheated last Feb for the
> last time and I
> decided to get me a rebuild. I opted for a rather
> highly recommended
> (internet, mail lists etc.) outfit here in SoCal.
> I installed the engine myself in late march, along
> with all new
> peripherals: Radiator, coolant pump, thermostat,
> thermo-time switch,
> fuel pump, filter, pressure diaphragm, all new
> radiator and fuel hoses
> (in engine compartment) yada yada. I had done this
> before on a rabbit,
> an Alfa Romeo and several motorcycles.
> I then broke it in (never over 3500 rpms, no load
> etc.) for 1500 miles,
> changed the oil, had my regular mechanic service it
> (mostly just oil
> changes, except the replacement of disintegrated
> driveaxles), with all
> the recommended oil changes.
>
> Anyhow, two weeks ago it started acting up, after
> not having any
> problem (Except driveaxles) for 10000 miles. The
> temp indicator
> suddenly rose all the way to the top, stay there for
> 10 seconds, with
> the LED flashing, and then went back down. It did
> that for couple more
> times the next two days, a very short lasting
> occurence. Each time I
> checked the coolant, hot and cold, and nothing was
> missing. On the 3rd
> day I noticed the temp indicator sit on or around
> the LED, whereas
> before it never climbed past 1/3. I drove the car
> to the side
> eventually and let it cool down. Then filled it up
> with water, bled the
> radiator on an incline and still it stayed around or
> past the LED. So I
> drove home, With the temp gauge LED suddenly,
> intermittently flashing,
> again for just a short time (seconds), sometimes
> accompanied by a
> climbing needle. However, during all these incidents
> the coolant temp
> needle never went all the way to the top, just about
> 7/10. Also, there
> was never any coolant in vaporized or liquid form
> escaping from
> anywhere. Never.
>
> The bloody head gaskets, I was thinking. Again??
> After such a short
> time??
>
> I turned it off at home, checked the coolant, after
> it "chilled out" a
> bit, and found it nearly filled. I shut the hatch
> and called it a day.
>
> The next morning it wouldn't start at all. So I pull
> the injectors and
> the plugs- a-ok.
> I then proceed to do a compression test on all cyls
> and, much to my
> dismay, I found they all had 0 (ZEEERO) compression.
> Valves bent/shot
> (new AMC heads from Spain, installed by the
> rebuilder) or piston rings
> burned up I thought. Darn!! Called AAA, Plus, thank
> you, and had it
> towed to my mechanic. Outrageous engine failure he
> diagnosed, too.
> Called AAA again and had it towed 80 miles to the
> shop who did the
> rebuild.
>
> They pulled the engine and took it completely apart,
> including bottom
> end. I finally went over there yesterday and took a
> look for myself,
> though I didn't check the numbers on the case to see
> if it was really
> mine. Their tech showed me the heads and pointed out
> that they were
> completely corroded (at the mating surface, where
> the gasket goes
> between head and block): There was a seam running
> all around, when
> touched would feel like 3 days of not shaving (The
> chin, not my toes).
> I was flabbergasted.
>
> I then got into an argument with both the tech and
> the shop owner. They
> insisted that it was due to improper coolant, and
> there being too much
> H2O in the mix. I explained to them that the high
> H2O content was due
> to me filling it with water two days ago, as an
> emergency on the road
> and that before that I always kept an eye on the
> coolant as well as the
> rest of the engine. Especially since I was planning
> on going to the
> mountains over the holidays. I personally filled it
> with Prestone
> without the phosphate, the orange stuff, not the
> green, when I
> installed the engine, properly bled the system,
> never had any problems,
> and 1 month ago ( 2 weeks before final breakdown)
> actually checked it
> with a coolant tester from Pep Boys, which resulted
> in a 50% mix
> result. I ended up never going to the mountains.
> They both insisted that I should have used the
> original VW factory
> coolant, went off about electrolysis being the only
> proper way to test
> it and that my failure in doing so voided the
> warranty. The orange
> stuff wouldn't do the trick.
>
> At the time, the rebuilder gave me 12 months
> warranty or 12000 miles,
> detailed on a separate instruction sheet, with all
> kinds of
> instructions and a inspection sheet on the back of
> it for a certified
> VW mechanic to check the workmanship of the
> installation and overall
> condition of the engine compartment and related
> accessories upon my
> having installed it. My mechanic did this when he
> changed the oil after
> break in and couldn't find anything wrong. He also
> did a tune up
> (advanced thereby the timing more than spec, on my
> recommendation). He
> did the follow up oil changes (every 2500-3000
> miles) also. The Vanagon
> never failed me since it got the rebuild. Never got
> hot past the LED,
> and I think I can count on my two hands the times
> the radiator fan came
> on. It ran like a champ, getting 16 mpg city and 20
> hwy. I was happy.
>
> What gives??? Could something like this really
> happen ? And is it
> really because of me using Prestone instead of VW
> phosphate free
> coolant?? If so, then screw German engineering, big
> time. How come I
> could put 24000 miles on the old tired stock engine
> with the green
> stuff, with her overheating and blowing hoses on a
> beserker basis??
>
> If this is so important, then why didn't the
> rebuilder point it out, IN
> BIG FAT LETTERS that there is no other coolant to be
> used except VW's
> product, jawohl???
>
> Nein Danke!!
>
> Anyhow, since I hate arguing I stopped, and left the
> place telling them
> to let me know how much it will cost to fix. I told
> them I would be
> willing to spend $1000 to get her back together,
> with another 12/12000
> Warranty. Else, the old girl should perish to WBX
> hell. The owners said
> they were gonna call me, because it might cost more
> since I might need
> more parts replaced.
>
> Whatever!! So I left and havent' heard from them. It
> seems like that
> legally it would be easy for them to get out of ANY
> responsibilty based
> on me having installed the engine myself. My
> mechanic says it is their
> fault.
>
> Or am I wrong and this could really happen just
> because of the
> coolant???
>
>
=== message truncated ===
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