Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:48:12 -0800
Reply-To: zampano <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: zampano <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM>
Subject: Re: rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
In-Reply-To: <002901c2b9ea$cdb56c20$32b57ed8@myselff4nx2kzt>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
I don't know what to tell you. I am seriously considering the dreadful
litigation solution in small claims court, should we not be able to
agree on a solution. A solution for me would be to pay for their labor
for removing and reinstallation. I would need a fresh 12000/12 month
warranty with that.
They almost had me convinced that it was all me who was to blame. But
after talking to my mechanic, an actual Volkswagen tech at the Santa
Monica dealership, and the responses from the list, I think otherwise.
Legally, they have a lot of loopholes in their warranty contract. The
most important thing would be to get it checked and certified by a VW
dealership ($$$ probably), then send them back the form. This is a
major part of their warranty requirements. Keep a close eye on the
coolant. Might be they do better work thesedays, even though their tech
was still the same as a year ago.
These guys are two young kids in their late twenties/early thirties,
not unlike myself. Yet, I have rarely encountered that sort of
Cali-Kids being very fond of work that involves labor and dirty hands.
I know, because I am a construction contractor myself. Off topic anyway.
What amazes me is that they get a lot of business from people far away,
who research over the internet, and assume they're some sort of
Westcoast Boston Bob. Which they might well be, just apparently not in
my case.
Keep your fingers crossed. Might as well contact them and tell them
about a case you heard of involving failure of one of their rebuilds
(...my rotten deal). Ask them to specify their warranty requirements,
ask them again whether they truly rebuilt both bottom and top end, etc.
Cheers
matt
On Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 07:29 PM, Paul A. Blouin wrote:
> Wow, this is scary.
>
> I drove my car in and drove it out. It seems to be filled with green
> coolant right now as we speak. I have had it 9 days, and driven it
> about
> 200 miles.
>
> Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "zampano" <matthias.k@attbi.com>
> To: "Paul A. Blouin" <pablouin@OREGONCOAST.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
>
>
>> It was them. Dou. I am not sure, but I think they took the business
>> over from somebody else last year. The block was missing several items
>> (coolant bypass plate for the 1.9s, other stuff such as bolts and
>> o-rings), so I had to make 2 trips down there while I was installing
>> it. I might be wrong, but I never had too good a feeling. They do
>> soobie conversions now, which I would love to try I think. Just don't
>> know if they're the right guys.
>> Did you have yours shipped??
>>
>> Matt
>> On Friday, January 10, 2003, at 09:35 PM, Paul A. Blouin wrote:
>>
>>> Who rebuilt it?
>>>
>>> I just had mine done by "Fast German Auto last week. So far, so
>>> great.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "zampano" <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM>
>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 9:21 PM
>>> Subject: rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Vanagonites
>>>>
>>>> I have owned a my Vanagon ('84 WBX Wolfy) for about three years now,
>>>> bought it with 125000 mi on the odo. After 2 years of intermittent
>>>> quirks and failures it overheated last Feb for the last time and I
>>>> decided to get me a rebuild. I opted for a rather highly recommended
>>>> (internet, mail lists etc.) outfit here in SoCal.
>>>> I installed the engine myself in late march, along with all new
>>>> peripherals: Radiator, coolant pump, thermostat, thermo-time switch,
>>>> fuel pump, filter, pressure diaphragm, all new radiator and fuel
>>>> hoses
>>>> (in engine compartment) yada yada. I had done this before on a
>>>> rabbit,
>>>> an Alfa Romeo and several motorcycles.
>>>> I then broke it in (never over 3500 rpms, no load etc.) for 1500
>>>> miles,
>>>> changed the oil, had my regular mechanic service it (mostly just oil
>>>> changes, except the replacement of disintegrated driveaxles), with
>>>> all
>>>> the recommended oil changes.
>>>>
>>>> Anyhow, two weeks ago it started acting up, after not having any
>>>> problem (Except driveaxles) for 10000 miles. The temp indicator
>>>> suddenly rose all the way to the top, stay there for 10 seconds,
>>>> with
>>>> the LED flashing, and then went back down. It did that for couple
>>>> more
>>>> times the next two days, a very short lasting occurence. Each time I
>>>> checked the coolant, hot and cold, and nothing was missing. On the
>>>> 3rd
>>>> day I noticed the temp indicator sit on or around the LED, whereas
>>>> before it never climbed past 1/3. I drove the car to the side
>>>> eventually and let it cool down. Then filled it up with water, bled
>>>> the
>>>> radiator on an incline and still it stayed around or past the LED.
>>>> So
>>>> I
>>>> drove home, With the temp gauge LED suddenly, intermittently
>>>> flashing,
>>>> again for just a short time (seconds), sometimes accompanied by a
>>>> climbing needle. However, during all these incidents the coolant
>>>> temp
>>>> needle never went all the way to the top, just about 7/10. Also,
>>>> there
>>>> was never any coolant in vaporized or liquid form escaping from
>>>> anywhere. Never.
>>>>
>>>> The bloody head gaskets, I was thinking. Again?? After such a short
>>>> time??
>>>>
>>>> I turned it off at home, checked the coolant, after it "chilled
>>>> out" a
>>>> bit, and found it nearly filled. I shut the hatch and called it a
>>>> day.
>>>>
>>>> The next morning it wouldn't start at all. So I pull the injectors
>>>> and
>>>> the plugs- a-ok.
>>>> I then proceed to do a compression test on all cyls and, much to my
>>>> dismay, I found they all had 0 (ZEEERO) compression. Valves
>>>> bent/shot
>>>> (new AMC heads from Spain, installed by the rebuilder) or piston
>>>> rings
>>>> burned up I thought. Darn!! Called AAA, Plus, thank you, and had it
>>>> towed to my mechanic. Outrageous engine failure he diagnosed, too.
>>>> Called AAA again and had it towed 80 miles to the shop who did the
>>>> rebuild.
>>>>
>>>> They pulled the engine and took it completely apart, including
>>>> bottom
>>>> end. I finally went over there yesterday and took a look for myself,
>>>> though I didn't check the numbers on the case to see if it was
>>>> really
>>>> mine. Their tech showed me the heads and pointed out that they were
>>>> completely corroded (at the mating surface, where the gasket goes
>>>> between head and block): There was a seam running all around, when
>>>> touched would feel like 3 days of not shaving (The chin, not my
>>>> toes).
>>>> I was flabbergasted.
>>>>
>>>> I then got into an argument with both the tech and the shop owner.
>>>> They
>>>> insisted that it was due to improper coolant, and there being too
>>>> much
>>>> H2O in the mix. I explained to them that the high H2O content was
>>>> due
>>>> to me filling it with water two days ago, as an emergency on the
>>>> road
>>>> and that before that I always kept an eye on the coolant as well as
>>>> the
>>>> rest of the engine. Especially since I was planning on going to the
>>>> mountains over the holidays. I personally filled it with Prestone
>>>> without the phosphate, the orange stuff, not the green, when I
>>>> installed the engine, properly bled the system, never had any
>>>> problems,
>>>> and 1 month ago ( 2 weeks before final breakdown) actually checked
>>>> it
>>>> with a coolant tester from Pep Boys, which resulted in a 50% mix
>>>> result. I ended up never going to the mountains.
>>>> They both insisted that I should have used the original VW factory
>>>> coolant, went off about electrolysis being the only proper way to
>>>> test
>>>> it and that my failure in doing so voided the warranty. The orange
>>>> stuff wouldn't do the trick.
>>>>
>>>> At the time, the rebuilder gave me 12 months warranty or 12000
>>>> miles,
>>>> detailed on a separate instruction sheet, with all kinds of
>>>> instructions and a inspection sheet on the back of it for a
>>>> certified
>>>> VW mechanic to check the workmanship of the installation and overall
>>>> condition of the engine compartment and related accessories upon my
>>>> having installed it. My mechanic did this when he changed the oil
>>>> after
>>>> break in and couldn't find anything wrong. He also did a tune up
>>>> (advanced thereby the timing more than spec, on my recommendation).
>>>> He
>>>> did the follow up oil changes (every 2500-3000 miles) also. The
>>>> Vanagon
>>>> never failed me since it got the rebuild. Never got hot past the
>>>> LED,
>>>> and I think I can count on my two hands the times the radiator fan
>>>> came
>>>> on. It ran like a champ, getting 16 mpg city and 20 hwy. I was
>>>> happy.
>>>>
>>>> What gives??? Could something like this really happen ? And is it
>>>> really because of me using Prestone instead of VW phosphate free
>>>> coolant?? If so, then screw German engineering, big time. How come I
>>>> could put 24000 miles on the old tired stock engine with the green
>>>> stuff, with her overheating and blowing hoses on a beserker basis??
>>>>
>>>> If this is so important, then why didn't the rebuilder point it out,
>>>> IN
>>>> BIG FAT LETTERS that there is no other coolant to be used except
>>>> VW's
>>>> product, jawohl???
>>>>
>>>> Nein Danke!!
>>>>
>>>> Anyhow, since I hate arguing I stopped, and left the place telling
>>>> them
>>>> to let me know how much it will cost to fix. I told them I would be
>>>> willing to spend $1000 to get her back together, with another
>>>> 12/12000
>>>> Warranty. Else, the old girl should perish to WBX hell. The owners
>>>> said
>>>> they were gonna call me, because it might cost more since I might
>>>> need
>>>> more parts replaced.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever!! So I left and havent' heard from them. It seems like that
>>>> legally it would be easy for them to get out of ANY responsibilty
>>>> based
>>>> on me having installed the engine myself. My mechanic says it is
>>>> their
>>>> fault.
>>>>
>>>> Or am I wrong and this could really happen just because of the
>>>> coolant???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers and Happy Trails
>>>>
>>>> Let me know what you think...
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>
>>
>
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