Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 06:48:21 -0800
Reply-To: fortinoj@SPEAKEASY.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Joseph Fortino <fortinoj@SPEAKEASY.NET>
Subject: Re: rebuilder blames coolant for failure under warranty
Content-Type: text/plain
zoran,
sorry to hear such a pita for you, you should have coverage
on this you paid them$$ for a motor that should last, my
rebuild did something like this with AMC heads, but it turned out the head gasket went bad, so the shop cracked the
lower half of the motor to replace the head gaskets. Sometimes you don't get a good mating serface with the heads
and the block allowing all kinds of " freaky " action to happen. Take your time in this matter and it will work out
I went threw all kinds of hell for a couple months, But was
so happy that the shop i went to finished the job after
much talk back and forth. had to make them do it, because i
paid my last amounts of $$ and had to dig deep.
long story short what type of sealent are they using? and
have the tried other methods in that shop?
take it eazy.
Joe
On 11 Jan 2003, Zoran Mladen wrote:
> I think you are getting taken. I can't
> believe that you would see that type of
> corrossion on new heads in such a short
> time. I;ve worked on many WBX engines, and
> there is always corrossion, but never to the
> extent in the time period you refer to -
> perhaps after 60-70k.
>
> That being said, I do agree with the tech that
> VW original coolant is the best. Its the only
> thing I use. Taking apart an engine that has
> run on it after many years is a beautiful
> thing - no corrossion.
>
> Z
>
> --- zampano <matthias.k@ATTBI.COM> wrote:
> > Hi Vanagonites
> >
> > I have owned a my Vanagon ('84 WBX Wolfy)
> > for about three years now, bought it with
> > 125000 mi on the odo. After 2 years of
> > intermittent quirks and failures it
> > overheated last Feb for the last time and I
> > decided to get me a rebuild. I opted for a
> > rather highly recommended (internet, mail
> > lists etc.) outfit here in SoCal. I
> > installed the engine myself in late march,
> > along with all new peripherals: Radiator,
> > coolant pump, thermostat, thermo-time
> > switch, fuel pump, filter, pressure
> > diaphragm, all new radiator and fuel hoses
> > (in engine compartment) yada yada. I had
> > done this before on a rabbit, an Alfa Romeo
> > and several motorcycles. I then broke it in
> > (never over 3500 rpms, no load etc.) for
> > 1500 miles, changed the oil, had my regular
> > mechanic service it (mostly just oil
> > changes, except the replacement of
> > disintegrated driveaxles), with all the
> > recommended oil changes.
> >
> > Anyhow, two weeks ago it started acting up,
> > after not having any problem (Except
> > driveaxles) for 10000 miles. The temp
> > indicator suddenly rose all the way to the
> > top, stay there for 10 seconds, with the LED
> > flashing, and then went back down. It did
> > that for couple more times the next two
> > days, a very short lasting occurence. Each
> > time I checked the coolant, hot and cold,
> > and nothing was missing. On the 3rd day I
> > noticed the temp indicator sit on or around
> > the LED, whereas before it never climbed
> > past 1/3. I drove the car to the side
> > eventually and let it cool down. Then filled
> > it up with water, bled the radiator on an
> > incline and still it stayed around or past
> > the LED. So I drove home, With the temp
> > gauge LED suddenly, intermittently flashing,
> > again for just a short time (seconds),
> > sometimes accompanied by a climbing needle.
> > However, during all these incidents the
> > coolant temp needle never went all the way
> > to the top, just about
> > 7/10. Also, there was never any coolant in
> > vaporized or liquid form escaping from
> > anywhere. Never.
> >
> > The bloody head gaskets, I was thinking.
> > Again?? After such a short time??
> >
> > I turned it off at home, checked the
> > coolant, after it "chilled out" a bit, and
> > found it nearly filled. I shut the hatch and
> > called it a day.
> >
> > The next morning it wouldn't start at all.
> > So I pull the injectors and the plugs- a-ok.
> > I then proceed to do a compression test on
> > all cyls and, much to my dismay, I found
> > they all had 0 (ZEEERO) compression. Valves
> > bent/shot (new AMC heads from Spain,
> > installed by the rebuilder) or piston rings
> > burned up I thought. Darn!! Called AAA,
> > Plus, thank you, and had it towed to my
> > mechanic. Outrageous engine failure he
> > diagnosed, too. Called AAA again and had it
> > towed 80 miles to the shop who did the
> > rebuild.
> >
> > They pulled the engine and took it
> > completely apart, including bottom end. I
> > finally went over there yesterday and took a
> > look for myself, though I didn't check the
> > numbers on the case to see if it was really
> > mine. Their tech showed me the heads and
> > pointed out that they were completely
> > corroded (at the mating surface, where the
> > gasket goes between head and block): There
> > was a seam running all around, when touched
> > would feel like 3 days of not shaving (The
> > chin, not my toes). I was flabbergasted.
> >
> > I then got into an argument with both the
> > tech and the shop owner. They insisted that
> > it was due to improper coolant, and there
> > being too much H2O in the mix. I explained
> > to them that the high H2O content was due to
> > me filling it with water two days ago, as an
> > emergency on the road and that before that I
> > always kept an eye on the coolant as well as
> > the rest of the engine. Especially since I
> > was planning on going to the mountains over
> > the holidays. I personally filled it with
> > Prestone without the phosphate, the orange
> > stuff, not the green, when I installed the
> > engine, properly bled the system, never had
> > any problems, and 1 month ago ( 2 weeks
> > before final breakdown) actually checked it
> > with a coolant tester from Pep Boys, which
> > resulted in a 50% mix result. I ended up
> > never going to the mountains. They both
> > insisted that I should have used the
> > original VW factory coolant, went off about
> > electrolysis being the only proper way to
> > test it and that my failure in doing so
> > voided the warranty. The orange stuff
> > wouldn't do the trick.
> >
> > At the time, the rebuilder gave me 12 months
> > warranty or 12000 miles, detailed on a
> > separate instruction sheet, with all kinds
> > of instructions and a inspection sheet on
> > the back of it for a certified VW mechanic
> > to check the workmanship of the installation
> > and overall condition of the engine
> > compartment and related accessories upon my
> > having installed it. My mechanic did this
> > when he changed the oil after break in and
> > couldn't find anything wrong. He also did a
> > tune up (advanced thereby the timing more
> > than spec, on my recommendation). He did the
> > follow up oil changes (every 2500-3000
> > miles) also. The Vanagon never failed me
> > since it got the rebuild. Never got hot past
> > the LED, and I think I can count on my two
> > hands the times the radiator fan came on. It
> > ran like a champ, getting 16 mpg city and 20
> > hwy. I was happy.
> >
> > What gives??? Could something like this
> > really happen ? And is it really because of
> > me using Prestone instead of VW phosphate
> > free coolant?? If so, then screw German
> > engineering, big time. How come I could put
> > 24000 miles on the old tired stock engine
> > with the green stuff, with her overheating
> > and blowing hoses on a beserker basis??
> >
> > If this is so important, then why didn't the
> > rebuilder point it out, IN BIG FAT LETTERS
> > that there is no other coolant to be used
> > except VW's product, jawohl???
> >
> > Nein Danke!!
> >
> > Anyhow, since I hate arguing I stopped, and
> > left the place telling them to let me know
> > how much it will cost to fix. I told them I
> > would be willing to spend $1000 to get her
> > back together, with another 12/12000
> > Warranty. Else, the old girl should perish
> > to WBX hell. The owners said they were gonna
> > call me, because it might cost more since I
> > might need more parts replaced.
> >
> > Whatever!! So I left and havent' heard from
> > them. It seems like that legally it would be
> > easy for them to get out of ANY
> > responsibilty based on me having installed
> > the engine myself. My mechanic says it is
> > their fault.
> >
> > Or am I wrong and this could really happen
> > just because of the coolant???
> >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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