Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:11:11 +0100
Reply-To: Robert Steven Fish <fish@SALZBURG.CO.AT>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Steven Fish <fish@SALZBURG.CO.AT>
Subject: Re: POR15 Undercoat (long)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I have been experimenting with POR-15 now for over a year with mixed
results.
I am a serious fan of the stuff... it is often times somewhat miraculus what
it can do. The drawbacks are that the paint itself is expensive, it is
difficult to work with, and it can be tempermental.
I have coated many area of my Vanagon and also many external componants..
the Paulchen bike rack I got was getting rusty so I cleaned it up and
POR-15'd it, and it looks literally brand new... also after being out in the
elements for a season. The used trailer hitch I got was a rusty mess, and I
also treated that, and it is looking fine! I coated the headlight buckets
for my rectangular lights, as well as the inside area of the chassis all
behind the front headlight grill... great results! Also have hit various
other rust areas... rear hatch spots, the entire coolant overflow tank
holder... both shields under the engine, the entire windshield frame when
changing the windshield of my wife's Golf Cabrio... fantastic results.
Now the details. POR-15 needs to be applied to a 100% dust and grease free
surface... SO my guess is that a good sandblasting will be adequate for
surface crap removal... but you will have to remove any old undercoating,
oil, waxy stuff, and grime. For this the company recommends their Marine
Clean product, which I must say, is also pretty amazing stuff! I use it
diluted with water (depending on the cleaning I am doing) and I fill up a
spray bottle with it and spray it on, and wipe it off with a clean cloth...
then I do that again. This has worked quite well.
On areas which are ground or sanded down to bare metal... they suggest
preparing the surface with their product called Metal-Ready, which as far as
I can tell is a strong acid etching compound which may also be doing some
zinc coating to the bare metal. This is where I have had problems. I also
spray this on, and leave it for 10 - 30 min... it bubbles and fizzes and
seems to be doing its thing. Then I was simply wiping it off with a clean
towel, and lettting the surface dry before painting. I noticed often small
air bubbles and could only figure that the reaction was not complete, and it
was still bubling underneath... this looks rather crappy when you want that
super smooth surface which you CAN achieve with POR-15... but with a second
coat, is probably not problematic.
I then tried as the instructions suggested, to clean the Metal-Ready off
with water, and then a cloth and dry... I don't really like the idea of
water on my cleaned prepared surfaces, but this seemed to help... and I got
fewer bubbles... but not 100% smooth.
The POR-15 likes rust, as you know, so you should not go down to bare metal
in your prep.
The speed at which it dries is entirely dependent on temperature, but moreso
on HUMIDITY! It dries faster in high humidity conditions... and that can be
an issue, because in order for your entire restoration to work, you need to
time the various coats quiteprecisely. You need to let the first coat of
POR-15 dry to the point where a finger touch will leave a fingerprint mark..
meaning it is just slightly drier than "tacky". This is when you apply your
second coat (and I do NOT reccommend only one coat).
I usually do the first coat thinner than the second... and once the second
coat is to this fingerprint dryness... you then need to apply the primer.
SInce it can take from 1 to 4 hours to get to the nest coat.. your project
can last all day (ie. don't start it in the evening!).
I have not yet done any priming or final coat, as I am not interested so
much right now in the final appearence... I want solid rustproofing (plus I
am lazy)... but having said this, I can tell you that the high-gloss of the
black POR-15 will fade quickly to a matt black finish when the UV of the sun
hits it. I have read in the literature, and even asked the distributor if
this in any way affects the products composition or protection... and they
have indicated that the change through UV is 100% cosmetic.
This is kind of cool, as the Cabrio is already black, and I can touch up
areas of rust in it with nobody even knowing!! The Vanagon is of course a
different story. The one larger area where I experimented with priming
over the POR-15 was on teh rear hatch.. and I let the second coat dry
completely, and sanded it with a fine grit sandpaper as they suggested (400
I think).
First... sanding this stuff is a bear.. it is strong... and hard! I finally
had the feeling that I may have actually given the surface the tooth that it
needed for primer to stick to it... so I sprayed on some gray primer, and
hit it with a few coats over the next hour... it is now 6 months later and
there are area where the primer has come off (don't really know why) and the
POR underneath is just fine.
Anyway, feel free to pmail me and we can discuss the stuff further. I read
about a guy who coated the skid plates on his syncro with a few coats or
POR-15 and then went out on an offroad adventure over rocks, trees, etc...
afterwards he said the skid plates looked horrible... but when he sprayed
with a hose, there were just a few surface scratches, and no evidence of any
chips or flakes or anything!
Having used this stuff I can honestly say do not ever attempt to use it in
your normal everyday clothing... because you will get a bit of it on your
jeans, and it will stay there forever... and ALWAYS use rubber doctors
gloves and any other protective stuff you can. I got it on my arm and it
really was there for 10 days, couldn't scrub it off in the shower!! Once it
dries, it is over... this goes for you can of POR too! I take the larger
quantity that I buy, and immediately divide it up into little glass babyfood
type fars, and being certain I do not get ANY on the threads, I carefully
screw them closed and keep the stuff in a cool place.
There is a solvent which I got, because occasionally I let a jar sit too
long, and it will get syrupy.. so I add a bit of the POR Solvent to thin it
out... apparently you can also use it for cleanup... but the chemical scares
me... I don't want it on my skin or in my lungs etc. I buy cheap brushes
and throw them out after they have dried hard.
I hope this helps! Good luck, and I hope you can document this with some
photos etc! Would be great for others to learn from.
RSF
PS. I would highly suggest practicing on a few other projects before doing
your Vanagon... just to get the feel for the stuff.
IMPORTANT!!! In order to reply to me, you must have the word "FISH"
somewhere in the subject line of the email. Otherwise it goes directly in
the trash.
<º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{ <º)))>{
Robert S. Fish
Salzburg, Austria
1987 Wolfsburg Vanagon 2.1 GL Weekender
1987 Golf Cabriolet
1991 Golf
> To me, this is the perfect oportunity to sandblast or
> wirebrush and then coat the entire middle section of the van
> with POR15. Does anyone see a problem with doing this? My
> main concern is trapping moisture.
