Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (February 2003, week 1)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:26:22 -0600
Reply-To:     Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: really... how tough IS a full engine rebuild?
Comments: To: damoncampbellvw@YAHOO.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

OK I'll be the bad guy! Here are the Type IV air-cooled tips. The wasserboxer tips aren't invented because it is a very precise rebuild, .......... not recommended for Type IV rebuilders like me.

Stan Wilder ==================================== This will give you a good start on the rebuild:

If this engine is still running......... run some Gunk / Siloo / Rislone Engine Flush through it, just follow the instructions. Change the oil and filter and run 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil in it for about two hours (don't overfill the crank case) If you can't dive the car just start it up and run it long enough to get it to operating temp a few times before you pull the engine. You'll find that it reduces your engine cleaning time considerably. When you buy your Gasket set, be sure it has the front seal # 021-105-247a rear seal # 029-105=245b new connecting rod nuts are a good idea too # 113-105-427 the gasket set. Order them extra if they aren't in there. Order four extra cylinder base gaskets / shims .010 size. Try to get a gasket set with Viton pushrod seals (O Rings). Decide if you are going to run German rings or Brazilian rings. (I prefer the German ring, harder metal, takes a little longer to seat though.)

Contact JUSTIN 1-800-736-3550, This is IMPEX Justin@vwparts.com They will give you a good deal on good OEM bearings and parts. Tell them that you get 5% from Bus Depot, 10% from Busboys on orders over $100.00 and they will most likely give you 15%. Try Gordon Johnson & Sons Machine Shop for your cylinder heads. New AMC's for little more than rebuilts. #910180 2-liter Air Cooled Vanagon heads 800-360-1415 ------------------------- Engine Rebuild ------------------------------- The parts list below should be fairly close to what parts cost. Remember to add in for crankshaft polishing about $55.00 to $70.00 Lifter resurfacing, about a buck each. New lifters are about $9.00 each. New camshaft about $135.00 to $ 180.00 Rod rebuild. Piston end bushings about $8.00 per rod Machine shop cost of pressing the cam drive gear and distributor gear off and back onto your crankshaft when you install the rear main bearing, about $8.00 to $14.00 should cover it. Be sure that the bearing goes on right the first time; you'll have the crank with the bearing in the right position at the time you start on the presswork. ------------------------------------ Cost on my recent rebuild on a 2000cc. (these are standard size bearing part numbers) [ITEMS PURCHASED]

2 Cylinder heads @ $305.00 each Total $610.00

Part number: 029198075OR CYLINDER & PISTON KIT Price: $225.00 Quantity: 1 Total: $225.00

Part number: 021198481A MAIN BRGS T2 2000cc Price: $53.02 Quantity: 1 Total: $53.02

Part number: 021198541 CAM BRGS T2 2.0L Price: $15.00 Quantity: 1 Total: $15.00

Part number: 071198009A GASKET SET, Price: $55.67 Quantity: 1 Total: $55.67

Part number: 025198151 RING SET Price: $61.53 Quantity: 1 Total: $61.53

Part number: 039105701 ROD BEARING SET Price: $17.55 Quantity: 1 Total: $17.55

Part number: 029198141 CLUTCH KIT Price: $135.00 Quantity: 1 Total: $135.00

Part number: 111115107BK OIL PUMP Price: $18.95 Quantity: 1 Total: $18.95

Part number: 022109309 Cam Follower Price: $9.95 Quantity: 8 Total: $79.60

Part number: 022109021a Camshaft with gear Price: $139.95 Quantity: 1 Total: $139.95

Part number: 025115111a Oil Pump Gasket (order an extra) Price: $0.35 Quantity: 1 Total: $0.35

Part number: 022-109-451K Valve Adjusting Screw and Nut Set Price: $18.80 Qualtity 1 Total: $18.80 -------------- Crankshaft Shim Part Numbers ---------- 021-105-291 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .24mm / .0095 in. $2.70 021-105-281 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .30mm / .0120 in. NLA 021-105-283 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .32mm / .0126 in. $4.72 021-105-285 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .34mm / .0134 in. $4.72 021-105-287 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .36mm / .0142 in. $4.72 021-105-289 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .38mm / .0150 in. $4.72 -------------- ***************** -------------------- Cylinder Base Gasket 1.6 mm thick shims (part No. 071 101 341). -------------- ***************** -------------------- The factory camshaft (Thrust bearing only, the shell type cam bearing) cam bearing had a copper finish from the factory. When one tears the engine down this cam bearing looks severely worn, when it really is not, that's the way the "Elephant bearings" come brand new, out of the box. Replacement bearings may have a normal babbit finish. ------------- ***************** ---------------------- ******** Oil Pressure Gauge ************** I can't express strongly enough how important it is to have a working oil pressure gauge on a newly rebuilt engine. You may choose to just use the idiot light after your break in period but having an oil pressure gauge is near mandatory in the first few thousand miles. Although you engine may start immediately and the oil light will go out you're only measuring about 7 psi. Which is fine for idling at intersections. If you've badly placed a main bearing shell you will be getting your required 7 psi but you'll be getting oil blow out around the bearing shell and your engine will shortly self destruct with burned out rod bearings, seized engine and possibly spun bearings at one of the main bearing locations. If you've inverted the oil bypass plunger you'll be getting oil pressure. -------------------------------------------------------------

If you've never rebuilt an engine; I'd suggest that you get your hands on a Hayes or Bentleys repair manual and read through it (browse it mostly) and see what's involved. If you decide to go ahead with your rebuild run a quart of Marvel Mystery oil with your regular engine oil for as long as you can before the teardown. It also doesn't hurt to run a 1/2 quart with every tank of gas up till you rebuild. The Mystery oil will clean your oil passages, crankcase internally, lifters, pistons, piston tops and groves and just in general remove all of the varnish buildup that's in there. When you disassemble your engine use a torque wrench to loosen the bolts, replace bolts or nuts that have been over torqued. Consider using new rod nuts and crank case nuts and washers, new head bolt nuts and washers are a good idea too. Clean all bolt threads with a wire brush and wipe them dry. When you put your pistons into the cylinders, be sure that your flywheel is on the engine and the oil pump is NOT. The oil pump tends to jump out of the drive slot when you turn the engine backwards on occasion during the piston/ring replacement. While you've got the engine out go ahead and repack your CV joints and replace the boots. ******* Setting engine bearings on the pins ********************** This task has proven tricky for many engine builders. I've found that if I install the bearing pins in the case and set each of #1 and #3 bearings on the pin and scribe or mark the bearings before I put them on the crankshaft that I can set the crank shaft properly the first time. This means that you must scribe or mark #3 bearing before you install on the crankshaft under the cam drive gear. ******* Absolutely ***** Double check the retaining rings at your wrist pins. The arrow on the piston top points towards the flywheel. ******* Absolutely ***** Double check that the O ring on your oil pickup tube is in proper position. Put your distributor drive and your distributor in with the 12 degree angle set while you can still see the top of the piston and the marks on the back of your flywheel. Mark the timing notch on your fan assembly with white paint; you can also use Liquid Paper or Whiteout for a semi permanent easy to read mark. If you have AMC heads be certain of whether you need head gaskets or not, AMCs normally don't use gaskets and OEM VW does use gaskets. Even if your heads look good you need to have them inspected by a qualified re builder, heads with 100K on them need new seats / valves and guides even if they look good to you. Use engine assembly grease on everything that looks like a bearing, replace the starter pilot bushing in your bell housing and your clutch main shaft pilot needle bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Replace the felt seal and *O* ring in your flywheel. Don't trust new cylinder piston sets, check your end clearance on the rings for each cylinder. Clean and lubricate the cylinder walls before assembly and lube them good after assembly. If you can (within your budget) replace the camshaft and lifters, about an extra $180.00 on a good deal price. I'd recommend that you replace the $2.75 rocker arm adjusting screws if the show any wear at all. If you do the job right you could get as much as 140K out of your new engine before you have to go back in again. It has been said that the three oil gallery plugs on the flywheel side should be replaced with 1/8 NPT brass plugs threaded into the block. It might be something that you want to consider but is not required. If you've got a 2000cc Type IV engine, set your hydraulic lifters at ONE TURN from just touching the lifter. NOT the two turns in any of the manuals. Often it is best to install a new oil pressure-sending unit after the rebuild (just to be safe). About $5.00

*****************[Setting Deck Height]*************** You cannot run different brands of heads on alternate banks (combustion chamber cc) you have to run both VW or both AMC. Otherwise you'll have an expensive and very questionable repair job. Piston top to cylinder head clearance: Use a piece of hollow 1/8" thin wall brass hobby tubing. I bought it to check deck clearances when I built my engine. I crushed it in each cylinder and checked it with a mic after cutting 1/2" off after each test stroke. (can also use a good tight Crescent wrench as a measuring devise) Worked great and it crushes enough that it doesn't lock the stroke or bind the engine. It was a handy 98-cent tool for checking deck height and piston/head clearance. Just add .010 shims until you get them evenly matched. You'll probably need to order extra cylinder base shims in advance ........ four come with a gasket set. Seldom more than four are required but get four extras, about 90 cents each.

*****************[Very Important]********************

There are four parts you absolutely must keep up with when you disassemble your engine: 1. Spring under your distributor, tie it to your distributor with a small bundle tie. 2. Thrust washer under your distributor drive, tie it to your distributor drive with a small bundle tie. 3. Three thrust washer/spacers on the flywheel end of your crankshaft, Don't bend them, don't change the stacking order. They should be the proper thickness for your engine but you need to use a dial gauge and check crank end play before you reassemble the engine. You can use Plasti-Gauge to set your crankshaft end clearance. Its nice to have a dial gauge but the plasti gauge works just as well. 4. Fan spacer or AC pulley, if you install the fan without this spacer/pulley it will bind the fan against the fan shroud.

*************** [Best of luck to you!]*****************

Remember! Clean, Clean, Clean that is a big help in engine reassembly.

***************[Engine break in]****************** Install 20/50 Wt engine oil, new oil filter. Run the engine at 2000 RPMs for twenty minutes. It will take a while for the lifters and everything to settle in so you'll have noise, smoke and stink. Don't just guess about this, time it with a watch or watch the clock on your dash. You may think that the engine is going to self destruct during this 20 minutes but it will not. You can shut it down and reset the timing, points if you need to. If you have to do this shutdown ,,,,,, restart the 20 minute run in procedure. Change the oil and filter, remove and clean the strainer after this 20-minute run in. Drive the vehicle at 2000 RPMs or less for 200 miles. Change the oil, filter and clean the strainer. You can do the 200 miles in city driving or better out on a country road but don't let the engine overheat sitting in traffic. Race the engine up to 2000 RPMs if you get stuck in traffic, you engines needs the airflow to keep the heat down. Install 20/50-wt oil after this 200 mile run in. Drive the vehicle another 600 to 800 miles keeping the engine at less than 2000 RPMs and change the oil and filter again. You should check your lifter setting at this time and check for any oil leaks. After you've got this break in done you should wait about 5000 to 8000 miles before you go onto the higher quality synthetic oils.

Go get em!

Stan Wilder

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:38:33 -0800 Damon Campbell <damoncampbellvw@YAHOO.COM> writes: > I guess these weren't the answers i was expecting... In response to > this question, i received: > 2 "get a short block" > 3 "you'll probably screw it up, but try anyway" > 2 "go for it" > > For a crowd that typically prides itself on mechanical independence, > i am surprised at the suggestions to shy away from a full rebuild. > But, advice noted. I've taken steps to going the short block route, > which still lets me do a fair bit of it myself... Mr. boston bob, > however, does not do short blocks because of how easily the person > doing the top end rebuild can screw things up. So i am trying the > new guys at BusLab in berkeley, CA (relatively local to me) to do > the bottom end work (just getting a quote for now). > Thanks for the suggestions, and is bently and b-bob's site enough > info for the top-end rebuild? > Thanks, > -Damon > Damon Campbell <damoncampbellvw@YAHOO.COM> wrote: > Problem is i've never rebuilt an engine before. > > > > '84 Westy > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > >

________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.