Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 23:51:28 -0800
Reply-To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: engine conversion
In-Reply-To: <BA8ADA1B.CDDB%albell@uvic.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Again, please see ####
-----Original Message-----
From: Alistair Bell [mailto:albell@uvic.ca]
Sent: March 4, 2003 10:33 PM
To: vanagon@volkswagen.org; vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: Re: engine conversion
please note my ?????
on 4/3/03 9:21 pm, David Marshall wrote:
> I guess what what M. Sullivan did on his TDI install was not suitable? see
> this link:
>
> http://www.haywood-sullivan.com/vanagon/TDI/
>
> #### If I recall correctly he had to do some modifications to make it all
> fit under the lid. The many TDI installations that I have seen in Germany
> have problems with clearance of the lid and the injector pump and
> alternator - usually requires removal of sound proofing and shimming down
> the motor a little. Michael did an excellent job of getting his motor
> installed - there is lots of custom work done to his swap and his van
which
> has lead to his very enviable setup that I give two thumbs up to. His
swap
> is beyond the financial and mechanical means of most of us on the list
which
> makes it not as practical for us to choose the path he took
??????So for the rest of us mere mortals we should just mount the bugger at
15 degrees with your kit?
#### If you want to install a non-grey market motor with minimal hassle,
sure, why not? It is not just me who uses a 15 degree mounting system,
Overland does as well...
> The Tiico install has had alternator induced vibration problems due to the
> its bracket arrangement. But as has just been discussed on this list, the
> alternator bracket swap is a straightforward solution.
>
> #### I don't think it is a straightforward solution. I get a lot of
people
> on a regular basis asking me how to fix this problem as they feel that
Tiico
> doesn't have the answers that will help them. The people who have this
> problem don't feel it is a straightforward fix... they look at it as
though
> they are dumping more money on a conversion that was sold as complete and
> they are finding out after it is too late that it isn't as complete as
they
> though.
????? you get a lot of people about Tiico problems? So how do you fix it
then?
Why not look at what Jon <jon@FOREIGNAUTOSUPPLY.COM> just wrote tonight. He
actually has some solutions instead of sniping.
#### Who's sniping??? looks like you...
> I suppose if you want to use some pie pan or a sheet metal box, or build
up
> a false floor in the back of your van that's your decision, but tell me
how
> that actually provides more storage space!
> #### I understand the difference between more and different, my five year
> old has a good comprehension of this too... to me this solution does give
> you more space.
????well maybe you should listen to your 5 year old. You will actually get
less space, not more. What you get are more compartments and less cargo
space volume. Less height above engine hatch for large objects if you ever
want to use you van for hauling things
#### Why are you being so negative? It is simply more efficient use of the
limited space we all have. My family loves the fact that there is more room
for *their stuff* under the rear seat where they can reach it when ever they
need it, not behind the rear seat where the dog is usually drooling on it.
Daddy's seldom used stuff is under the bed - suits us all fine! If you are
going to haul a piano - get a u-haul!
> #### Thank you for taking me out of context here Alistair, where did I say
> that the VW factory mounted the motor at 15 degrees in a Vanagon? I just
> can't quite see where you saw that - can me make we wrong again????
????I don't need to make you wrong. I want to point out that one doesn't
need to run straight to Fast Forward for a 15degree mounting kit. And to
point out that your statement that:
>>If you start messing around with the pullies
>> like they did in the TiiCo kits then it is vibration city.
#### You're failing to carry through on your point here Allister, we were
talking about how mounting engines at 50 degrees doesn't always clear the
lid without special adaptations. Did I say that everyone should run right
out and get my mounting kit - no, I did not - it is a free world and I am
forcing no one to use my installation kits. Some of the vibrations in the
TiiCo kits ARE caused by non-standard mounting of accessories - this is true
statement. The ultimate setup is to use the same system the factory did,
again this is true statement.
?????Is not true. Think about it, these things can be fixed, just like
Randy's exhaust system and hot start problems in his conversion. Its part of
the game. Of course you may not want to say to the people who come to you
for advice on how to fix TiiCo vibe problems that it can be fixed, of course
because TiiCo is your competition.
#### Randy's exhaust shop originally didn't follow my instructions and he
had vibration problems, now Randy had a good exhaust system. Hot start
problems turned out to be a faulty CIS-E system - Can't see how a mounting
system would be responsible for either of these issues.
?????And tell me again David, why is it that an engine vibrates more when it
is at a 50 degree angle than at a 15 degree angle? You state on your website
that there is: "No vibration - there is no felt vibration at any RPM when
the engine is running" with your 15 degree TDI install kit.
Alistair
(no commercial interest in I4 conversions)
#### Yes, Allister, this is true, there are no vibrations with a correctly
installed TD / TDI when you use my kit. If you have a TD or TDI installed
using the early Diesel motor mounts there is a bit of a vibration issue -
many T3 shops in Germany will also concur with this statement. This is why
the 83 and later Diesel mounts are sought after - less vibrations. There
must be some reason why VW refined their motor mounts.
#### It comes down to this Allister, different strokes for different volks,
four out of five of my customers are installing a Diesel motor of some sort
and all of these customers are very satisfied with the end results of their
labour. In this light, I am not in competition with TiiCo - there is
definitely a place for their conversion kit. I am serving two different
types of people, those who want even more from their vehicle by installing a
more sophisticated motor and those who don't have the $$$ to shell out for
the TiiCo kit - they are perfectly happy with a $250 Digifant II motor and
get the who thing rolling for well under 2K US. I am very sure there are
also many happy TiiCo owners out there and I whish them all the best with
their motors too - I'm not throwing stones at anyone and I'm not trying to
piss you or anyone else off. I am just pointing out that there are
advantages and disadvantages to ALL motor swaps out there - even keeping the
original motor - most of all, I was just pointing there was an error in the
original answer to the original question.
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
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