Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:06:44 -0800
Reply-To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
Subject: Re: To All Tiico Owners: Solutions To Every Tiico Conversion
Question
In-Reply-To: <000201c2e20f$6eb11100$1690c3d8@foriegnone>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
A lot of good information, but next time park your condescending attitude in
your shop. More people will listen if you don't come off so arrogant...
Cheers,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of Jon
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:26 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: To All Tiico Owners: Solutions To Every Tiico Conversion
Question
I've been a member for all of three days and I must first start by thanking
"Gerald Masar", "Tom Young", and "Chris Delong" for pointing out that this
forum is rapidly becoming "full of fluff". Don't just click the delete key,
hear what I have to say and then I'll go for good after I withstand the
oncoming onslaught.
I own a VW specialty shop in Maine (Bay, Vanagon, Eurovan, Splitty) with a
staff of three (young to old) with a combined total of over 100 years
experience (no joke). Well that may not say much, but I'll tell ya I've had
little interest in time consumers such as this web site until recently when
my stomach turned sour from all the bologna out there regarding the Tiico
conversion. As conversion specialists for over 18 years we've done:
Corvair, Pinto and Mustang 2.3L, Buicks, Mazda Rotaries 13A & 13B to Porche
911 and for many years the Golf/Jetta CIS systems out of our own parts and
design and I'm also sad to say the sorriest excuse in the Bunch - the Legacy
2.2 (but that's for another day).
In the past three years we've installed over 30 Tiico conversions. Probably
in the neighborhood of 75 on the old CIS systems. We're also part of a
development team that completed and will very soon have available a chip and
cam modification for the Tiico tested by Bosch and VW Racing of SA that
will make others (kits) very meek in comparison. So I feel we have some
experience in this area; enough to say that by far the Tiico kit is the
cleanest on the market. If that doesn't impress you, or you disagree and
claim issues grab a soda, this will take a little time.
Recently a few customers forwarded emails to me regarding many of you out
there appearing to try to "split the atom" when it comes to this kit. My
customers were not concerned because in part their vans have many miles of
excellent running (from Vancouver to Mexico, to Montana, etc.)...they just
thought I'd be interested in all the "Bad Rap" that they weren't
experiencing. I just chuckled and deleted at first until I started fielding
calls from people with little to no experience bashing the product only
because of this forum and asking us to do other installs.
That's why I'm here and I'll gladly go head to head with any one of you to
straighten out all this slander from a relatively small group of inept
people with big mouths.
Let's first deal with the so-claimed issues of Vibration. My intent is not
to appear pompous; it's just to simply state the facts. As I'm sure you
know when it comes to mounting the Tiico kit is derived largely, if not
solely, from it's sibling the diesel vanagon and '94 to '95 T-3 Volks Bus.
The engine cradles are the most recent diesel supersession - so those out
there spreading crap about the Tiico ones being old factory left-overs are
wrong, so shut it. Vibration, especially on the diesels, was something the
engineers put a great deal of time into...so all of you out there with all
this "free time" of "re-inventing the wheel" on how to get rid of
vibration...you may want to listen up.
When installing the kit, just like any other, keep and adhere to simple
engine installation principles. I've had more vans with this kit show up
here to be straightened out where other garages and DIY's have failed. You
never install an engine by tightening down on one mount and then simply "go
around the horn" and then jam down on all the others. You'll have
vibration. You must hang the engine and transmission loosely and manipulate
both with proper support until they sit at home where they really need to
go, not where one yanks them and tightens them to the body to make fit. You
must tighten all hardware down evenly. Also, common sense tells you if you
have a bad front transmission mount (most are and seldom replaced), then
that will drastically reduce the effectiveness of your engine mounts
ability. What about badly damaged rear bumpers? How many vanagons do you
actually see with a flawless rear bumper...Think about it: if the van was
hit hard enough to stuff the bumper into the rear vallance, then your frame
where the brackets bolt may be bowed or slightly pushed in. The latter
would make it futile to impossible to limit all vibration.
If all this is in order and complaints of vibration are still there, then:
the half moon adapter plates supplied in the kit which allow for an upper
third bolt to affix the cross members to the rear frame need to be welded.
Here's why. The diesel chassis already came with these pieces as part of
the frame. Some early waterboxer jobs came with one already there on the
passenger side. Some may say "Well that's not the problem." Let me tell ya
something. If you don't weld these like they were on the diesels you may
find in the future one tearing away from the chassis because of the stress
to that upper third bolt...then you'll have more than vibration as an issue.
Two tiny migwelds are all that are needed. They can be done easily as well
with the engine and transmission already in. Support your engine and
transaxle and remove your exhaust at the cat, and remove both engine
cradles. Next, snug the "half moon" plates to the frame with the 8mm x 1.25
bolts supplied and after a slight grinding to the bracket and frame to
ensure a good weld, then mig a thin bead from north to south on both sides.
Take your 8mm bolts out, support the engine and trans and set them into
position and then tighten down on all hardware evenly.
Next the left rear "D Pillar" fresh air snorkel...Use it...don't just make
an attempt and sit it there left unattached and say "it was too hard to
install..." and "it's not necessary..." Well it is .
Oh - for all you exhaust geniuses out there, pay attention: Stop trying to
re-invent a system that works great. Stop cutting, hacking, and staving the
header flex joint and welding to it etc....I've seen more cluster (you know
whats) when it comes to this than any other. It's not that hard. Get a
1.9L Vanagon mufler part # 025251051E or Ansa # VW 5845...they're cheap.
Also, you must have complete vanagon 2.1L '86 - '91exhaust brackets and
straps. If you're too cheap to buy new ones call me, I have some we've
built for less than 1/2. Grab a Bently manual and look at the 1.9L exhaust
picture section (very important). The picture shows the correct flange
positon, offset, and rotation of the cat and rear muffler. With this
exhaust it works perfect on the Boxer as well as the Tiico. With the 2.1L
brackets and straps and correct rotation positions you have an exhaust
system that's tucked in tight, perfectly horizontal, with no stress on the
header flex portion, and looks great. These headers do not simply crack on
their own. They've been so incorrectly installed with
cherry-bomb-after-market-garbage for silencers and all rotated the wrong
way. I haven't had one cracked header in 32 engines...don't you think if it
was actually that big of a problem that I'd have one by now?
If you have tirelessly attacked all of these issues - all of them - and are
still dissatisfied, here's another tip. The original diesel mount in the
cradles as I mentioned earlier had the bolt going in from north to south or
front to back of the vehicle instead of east to west. They also were
sandwiched between two welded pieces of flat stock to limit movement. The
newly designed cross members only have metal on one side with a dimple on it
to mate with one side of the rubber mount. The dimple must line up and
mate. The bolts also only go from east to west leaving the bolt head to
absorb the entire flex of the mount. This producing a noticeable a problem
is extremely rare. If you run across this as being a source of vibration
simply cut a piece of flat stock with a 90 degree lip and a hole inthe
center (for bolt) to sandwich the mount together on both sides and weld it
to the crossmember. Again, it's very rare you'd get to this point but some
vans have more harmonic vibrations than others. You're talking less than
10% for the fussiest of the fussy people who expect a cadillac ride out of a
14 yr old van for all of $3.750.00 for the complete kit.
Summary on exhaust and vibrations:
No engine or exhaust should ever be installed by tightening down on one
unit then going to the next one. All must be tightenend evenly together
after both the engine and transmission are completely cop aesthetic with
their correct orientation. Remember a transmission on it's way out thats
been limping along, will only stick out that much more wtih a new engine
with almost twice the horse power. How are your carrier bearings? Mainshaft
bearings? Syncro's?Front mount? take these seriously into consideration.
Burnt pistons, fuel economy, and performance. First of all, those of you
without a VW/Audi Vag 1551, 1552, or assenmacher or equivalent diagnostic
equipment, take a step back and really ask yourself, "Am I in over my head?"
"Is it past my bedtime yet?" OR at least maybe should I call someone who
can straighten out all these items for me. And the dealer may not be the
answer either. Not only have I not had a burnt piston in 32 engines; I've
actually pulled apart and reassembled and correctly set up other garage's
customers from the midwest to the east coast and they run beautifully with
no issues of this type afterwards. The Golf/Jetta inline is one of the most
durable, easily assembled engines ever made. If I was the factory I
wouldn't warranty any burnt piston failures to you customers because they
know as well as all you engine rebuilders out there know the chances of it
being caused by any other than improper set up are nill to none. I will
explain why you get a burnt piston and why those of you who have had one
fail, fall into one of these catagories.
I'm sure some of these you've heard already: A bad Injector(s) that is
re-used that was not working properly on your old boxer engine can't be
re-used. You must test them first. If everybody knows this then...stop
using them anyway. So with this in mind...The only reason a piston burns up
in 2000 miles or less is because of either a very lean condition, or so rich
you have washed that cylinder down with fuel completely, or a valve has
stayed stuck open or closed(which would cause either or). Also, half of all
vanagons out there, Tiico or not, are running with 33 to 37 lbs of fuel
pressure and that is completely unacceptable. Fuel pressure is exactly 29
lbs. No more, no less (Tiico or Boxer). 36 lbs with the vacuum
disconnected. If you're reusing your old pressure regulator do a fuel
pressure and vacuum test and make sure your old one is good. We replace 25
or so Boxer customer's regulators a year...they all are at the same life
cycle.
I know, I know. Many out there right now are saying well I did all that and
it's still too lean. Well here you go: How advanced or improperly set is
your timing and what is your ECU throwing for codes? I always ask people
about this and they say,"Oh, um, ah, - no codes at all, never had any."
Well that's a lie. Codes are created on start up by connecting the ground
cable to the battery and must be cleared (every new car is like that). So
don't tell me that. Every Tiico must have codes cleared first, or it cannot
accept any parameter values. Remember that Tiico timing and set up are not
exactly the same as a Golf or Jetta in most details. The only similarity is
that the engine must be at operating temperature (fan cycled atleast once)
with codes cleared before timing and basic setting are initiated. I'm not
being insulting but I've had more people on the phone who thought they knew
how to use a digital advance timing light and they didn't. It's just a fact
and they can be a little confusing.
The yellow arrow on the lower timing cover is 0 or TDC. The yellow dot to
the left of that is 6 BTDC. It's hard to point the timing light through the
license cover, so remove the two philips screws that hold the overflow tank
in and remove (you will replace later). Now you have easy access to the
crank pulley notch. With your RPM at 1450 NOT at IDLE Digitally set your
gun to 10 to 12 degrees. Loosen and rotate distributor till the crank
pulley notch lines up exactly with the arrow "0" on the timing cover. Lock
down the distributor. This eliminates guessing on the timing mark by
bringing it around so you can see it. Every other installation I've seen
has been set up way advanced or way retarded. Remember also - timing is set
with engine RPM at 1450. If you're using a Vag 1551 or 1552 after codes are
cleared and mixture adaptation within close range, go into basic setting
prompt 04 under engine electronics and the Vag 1551 or 1552 will
automatically raise the idle for you to 1450 through the ECU. After timing
is set and you cancel out of that screen the idle will drop back down to
900 - 950. Very simple.
As I mentioned earlier, mixture adaptation has to be set prior to setting
the timing for ecu reference and then again after with a sniff test of CO%.
For those of you who don't know what a mixture adaptation setting is, again
ask yourself the same questions mentioned earlier because now it's really
getting late and way past your bedtime. Fuel mixture adaptation is set and
can vary according to your sea level and sniff pipe figures. I suggest this
number is discussed with your Tiico supplier, but for example here we are at
sea level we set the mixture to 00128 - 00129 accordingly with our exhaust
gas analyzer. Some folks in extreme elevation may be nearer to 00136 or
most extreme 00160. Your on board diagnostics codes OBDII USE THEM will
tell you if your mixture adaptation has exceeded it's limit. Finally, for
any of this to work your O2 sensor has to be wired in correctly to the ECU
and your sniff test must be at 0.725% to 1.25%. We like 1.0% as it is
usually a really safe number. All of this is mentioned several times on
tiico's installation guide and website.
If Tiico is unavailable to help you with this, contact me at
jon@foreignautosupply.com and I'll help you. Guarenteed one or several of
these issues has to be off to burn a piston. An engine doesn't just burn a
piston or have poor fuel econmy because of assembly. 99 out of 100 times it
is because of poor set up. It's the number one reason people complain of
17 - 18 mpg. All of this info is easily accessible as I said to you on the
Tiico web site.
A final note on vibration, especially STD trans owners on "harmonic hum".
We install 5-speeds for many of our customers. Any Vanagon, waterboxer or
not, could use an extra gear. The 5-speed is an excellent marriage to this
or any other kit.
A final note on burnt pistons, fuel economy, and set up as well as
performance. The VW factory SA or not, knows as well as you engine builders
out there the truth to these issues. You guys have to stop being so passive
aggressive and blaming others for "catastrophic engine failures" and realize
either you or your installation site dropped the ball.
"Boston Bob" of Boston Engine Ex. and I have been friends for a long time
and just recently we discussed the horrors of building a product and letting
others finish the reassembly of things such as a simple longblock, etc.
Then setting it up on their own. Other than communication and hoping your
customer follows all you've said you're kind of S.O.L. This is a much
bigger problem than you would think in the entire industry. Tiico is not
alone. And believe me I'm not getting paid to say that. I'm not connected
with Tiico in any way other than the fact that I buy the engines from them
and are part of the development team.
The only problems I see with this kit is that unfortunately they actually
run pretty well for awhile even if they are set up poorly. That makes it
difficult for people to assume that there many be a "smoking gun".
Secondly, I think Peter B. at Tiico has naively assumed that alot of you out
there know what you are doing. Or read all his install instructions.
Oh - and Greg Dodge, scorpion09a@yahoo.com whomever you are out there. I
present a challenge to you personally. You seem to be running your suck
more than anyone on the forum...get a U-Haul and cart your bus out here to
us. I'll fix it free of charge and show you what went wrong. If not and
I'm in the wrong, I'll build a boxer engine and install it for free for you
or any other kit plus your U-haul charges. Mainly because others out there
aren't savy enough to know you're full of "fluff" and eventually you'll
start hurting the VW business as a whole and this site with your slander,
and that's not what this should be about.
Jon@foreignautosupply;.com
P.S. - If I can be of help to any of you please don't hesitate to contact me
at (207) 833-0009.