Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:15:00 -0600
Reply-To: Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Has anyone saved a burnt engine?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Robert:
About a year ago I got a Type IV engine from Andy Zappa.
Andy's 82? Air cooled burned.
Here is what I found:
#1) Magnesium fan shroud caught fire (probably not the cause), the fire
department gave it a good blast of water and oxygen mixture and sent
molten magnesium all over the closed engine compartment.
#2) The fire melted the rear engine yoke (aluminum) fan shroud burned as
fuel (magnesium), oil pump cover, burned out the rubber engine mounts.
Everything in the engine bay was carbon and half the distributor was
melted away.
#3) The case looked OK until I found that the oil gallery on the rear
motor mount area was weeping, it had reached critical heat and was or
would have dropped out soon.
#4) The engine fan was melted off and the steel hub was seized to the end
of the crank (hand me a bigger hammer please!)
#5) The clutch disk was bonded to the flywheel and left friction material
stuck to the flywheel when I pried it loose.
#6) There were some fins on each head that had dripped from fired
magnesium heat in the push rod cover area.
#7) The valve cover gaskets were burn out under the valve covers. I bent
the wire bails like bailing wire, all spring tension gone from them.
#8) The push rods tubes were stuck into both the heads and block with O
rings that got gummy.
#9) The #4 and #3 main bearings were seized to the crank.
#10) I also got the transmission, the plastic grease seals on the output
shafts were melted off and the Bakelite on the starter had blistered and
become very brittle. The starter was locked.
I gave every part a good evaluation before I started hauling off parts so
I wouldn't be tempted to use them.
I couldn't save the crank shaft, case or anything external.
Just in general I got very nasty, worked two hours getting the thing out,
spent about five hours taking everything apart and just wrote it off as a
bad experience.
The one thing that struck me funny was that almost every nut on the case
bolts would just spin off with finger pressure ............... told me
the nuts had been cherry red and the cylinder studs were stretched (lost
temper, me and the studs)
Considering that this engine had a magnesium fire and yours didn't you
may have something to work with.
As for me, I'll never waste my time again on a burnt engine when I can
buy a generic dead engine from wrecking yards for 100$, I've gotten them
as cheap as 55$ when I pulled them.
Stan Wilder
On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:59:36 -0800 Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
writes:
> The question is,
> has anyone who reads this list put back in service an engine that
> came from
> a Vanagon that had a engine compartment fire?
>
> I have such an engine and it after tearing it down to the case ,I
> have
> discovered it is a brand new engine.
>
> The Vanagon it came out of had an engine fire that was put out
> before it
> could melt the plastic engine lid .
>
> I think I have figured how the fire originated also.
> It was human error- the installer may not have connected a hose or
> left the
> brittle adaptor on the firewall, and gasoline leaked out. The engine
> was
> running, the giniton wire melted all the way to the key, melting
> the
> ignition switch and freezing the key in the on position.
>
> The fire was quickly extinguished, both rear quarter windows were
> smashed
> out and the also the rear hatch window.
>
> The rear hatch was locked, so the lock and consequently the hatch
> was
> damaged in order to open the hatch.
>
> It looks like a fire department save, because a Vanagon mechanic
> would know
> that smashing out the side windows would avail nothing)Or would he?
> Maybe
> the installer wasn't a VW specialist.
>
> Anyway, I have removed the engine and the burnt components. It looks
> like
> the flames never touched the top engine surface. The head gaskets
> did'nt
> burn. The engine was full of coolant.
>
> No fire burnt under the engine, which is shiny new. It has a yellow
> engine
> sticker that tells it was remanufactured at Cummins Canada. The
> sticker
> did'nt burn.
>
> The case scrubbed up to a new shiny metal. It was only smoked.
> A lot melted plastic covered the top of the case.
> I don't know at what temperature these plastics melt at, but I would
> guess
> below 500 degrees, and the plastic would create an insulating
> barrier from
> the heat above.
> Also, at the base of a fire is a layer of air.
>
> Since the engine case itself never ignited, but the components above
> it did,
> the rubber intake boot for example, then this air layer would be
> even
> greater, much like the air space below a fireplace grate.
>
> I'm grateful fpor any comments on your experience or scientific
> observations.
>
> Thanks-
>
> Robert K
>
> 1982 Westfalia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The alternator, AC comp, PS pump, airbox/afm, intake manifolds,
> injctors
> /fuel rails, everything above the case was toasted.
> But no to the point of total consumption, most of the burnt -melted
> components were still recognizeable, except for the airbox, which
> melted and
> the AFM, which melted also.
>
> The engimne turns over readily, and there is no evidence of head
> gasket
> leaks.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert
> 1982 Westfalia
>
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