Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:21:07 -0800
Reply-To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: engine conversion
In-Reply-To: <BA8AB5B5.CDC4%albell@uvic.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Please see ####
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Alistair Bell
Sent: March 4, 2003 7:58 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: engine conversion
I guess what what M. Sullivan did on his TDI install was not suitable? see
this link:
http://www.haywood-sullivan.com/vanagon/TDI/
#### If I recall correctly he had to do some modifications to make it all
fit under the lid. The many TDI installations that I have seen in Germany
have problems with clearance of the lid and the injector pump and
alternator - usually requires removal of sound proofing and shimming down
the motor a little. Michael did an excellent job of getting his motor
installed - there is lots of custom work done to his swap and his van which
has lead to his very enviable setup that I give two thumbs up to. His swap
is beyond the financial and mechanical means of most of us on the list which
makes it not as practical for us to choose the path he took
The Tiico install has had alternator induced vibration problems due to the
its bracket arrangement. But as has just been discussed on this list, the
alternator bracket swap is a straightforward solution.
#### I don't think it is a straightforward solution. I get a lot of people
on a regular basis asking me how to fix this problem as they feel that Tiico
doesn't have the answers that will help them. The people who have this
problem don't feel it is a straightforward fix... they look at it as though
they are dumping more money on a conversion that was sold as complete and
they are finding out after it is too late that it isn't as complete as they
though.
You diss the TiiCo install on your website too, isn't that enough?
#### I am not 'dissing' anyone, I am simply stating what I other customers
and vendors relay on to me and what I know to be correct. I am very sure
that many people will agree with me that the TiiCo setup isn't the bed of
roses it was cracked up to be.
I suppose if you want to use some pie pan or a sheet metal box, or build up
a false floor in the back of your van that's your decision, but tell me how
that actually provides more storage space!
#### Yes, Allister, you would build a false floor to accommodate the sheet
metal box that you would fasten to the engine cover. This would give you
3.5" if storage under this false floor for things like you jack, booster
cables, 1L of oil, some tools and other stuff that usually sits under the
rear seat taking up space that you would rather use for things that you want
to access everyday. The biggest complaint I hear about the campers is a
lack of storage space - this is one solution to that problem. It also acts
as sound proofing for the I4 motor as well, which isn't a quiet as the
wasserboxer in my opinion. I have seen some really nice false floors built
that people have applied laminate to that is exactly the same as the
Westfalia finish - looks almost stock. Still enough room to get the rear
cabinet door open with the mattress in place too.
I mean "more", not "different".
#### I understand the difference between more and different, my five year
old has a good comprehension of this too... to me this solution does give
you more space.
Is it some sort of new "Fast Forward Space Warp Technology (pat.pend.)?
#### F.F.S.W.T. has been in available for a long time - where have you been?
Oh, and does the stock Vanagon 1.6TD lie at 15 degrees?, no? oh? it does lie
over at 50 degrees and doesn't intrude into the passenger compartment, what
were VW engineers thinking about? what a waste of space.
Alistair
#### Thank you for taking me out of context here Alistair, where did I say
that the VW factory mounted the motor at 15 degrees in a Vanagon? I just
can't quite see where you saw that - can me make we wrong again???? You are
right Alistair, the 1.6TD does lay over at 50 degrees in the European T3 and
it doesn't protrude into the passenger compartment, yes this is true, a very
good observation. Have you ever seen or worked on a FACTORY 1.6TD T3 with
air conditioning? Noooo.... well, there is the odd one out there - very
rare but they DO exist. The brackets for the AC compressor on the 1.6TD are
unique to the T3 and you can't redly buy these parts in North America - I
think you would have a hard time doing this in Germany too. In fact, you
can't make a 1.6TD / 1.9TD / 1.9TDI Vanagon from parts that are *redly
available* in North America - period. A stock MF, AAZ, AHU engine from a
Golf, Jetta, Passat will not last long at 50 degrees due to oiling issues
and you can't use stock Vanagon Diesel mounts to mount it. We all know
that... or at least the most people who have spent any time on this list
knows that. We also know that you could use a Quantum exhaust manifold to
overcome the mount issue and you can get a custom oil return line that goes
into a modified oil pan, but you are back to the that unnecessary and costly
screwing around factor again that 95% of the people who own a Vanagon
doesn't really want to do. Modification and customization is for geeks and
most of us aren't really geeks when it comes right down to it - we just want
to go camping or driving, not wrenching every other weekend chasing down
obscure parts and mechanical gremlins. Just so we get back to the original
context of the original questions and answers:
Q "Is there any engine other than tiico and subaru that will fit the vanagon
without modification to the lid?"
A "All inline 4 cyl. Vw engines will fit, if you use the Diesel parts, just
like the tiico does."
#### That answer wasn't 100% true. I was just stating the some facts to why
they will all not work without medication, but what the heck do I know???
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
- Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
- Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation
- European Lighting for most Volkswagen models
on 4/3/03 6:59 pm, David Marshall wrote:
> This is NOT true.
>
> I am installing a 1.9L Turbo Diesel with factory AC and PS. There is NO
WAY
> this will fit under the engine cover with out modifications as the
> alternator sits way too high. This is the same for the 1.6TD, 1.9TDI and
> the 2.0L cross flow engines. If you start messing around with the pullies
> like they did in the TiiCo kits then it is vibration city.
>
> More an more people are coming to realisation that if you install the
motor
> at 15 degrees using all the factory accessories you are in for a trouble
> free installation, you will GAIN storage space and everything will work
they
> way it should.
>
> David Marshall
