Vanagon EuroVan
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Date:         Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:47:56 +0000
Reply-To:     Chris DeLong <green536@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Chris DeLong <green536@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Parting out '85 Vanagon
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Most of it is there. No engine or trans. all the little trinkets are there. P-mail me for details. Will ship anything. TIA

Chris DeLong ICQ#45030867 Seattle, WA USA '80 16V 'Rocco ragtop '91 GLi 2.0 16V (for sale) '77 Rabbit 16V '61 17 Window type II '91 Vanagon '84 Jetta

>From: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM> >Reply-To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM> >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >Subject: Re: To All Tiico Owners: Solutions To Every Tiico Conversion > Question >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:06:44 -0800 > >A lot of good information, but next time park your condescending attitude >in >your shop. More people will listen if you don't come off so arrogant... > >Cheers, > >Jeff > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf >Of Jon >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:26 PM >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >Subject: To All Tiico Owners: Solutions To Every Tiico Conversion >Question > > >I've been a member for all of three days and I must first start by thanking >"Gerald Masar", "Tom Young", and "Chris Delong" for pointing out that this >forum is rapidly becoming "full of fluff". Don't just click the delete >key, >hear what I have to say and then I'll go for good after I withstand the >oncoming onslaught. > >I own a VW specialty shop in Maine (Bay, Vanagon, Eurovan, Splitty) with a >staff of three (young to old) with a combined total of over 100 years >experience (no joke). Well that may not say much, but I'll tell ya I've >had >little interest in time consumers such as this web site until recently when >my stomach turned sour from all the bologna out there regarding the Tiico >conversion. As conversion specialists for over 18 years we've done: >Corvair, Pinto and Mustang 2.3L, Buicks, Mazda Rotaries 13A & 13B to Porche >911 and for many years the Golf/Jetta CIS systems out of our own parts and >design and I'm also sad to say the sorriest excuse in the Bunch - the >Legacy >2.2 (but that's for another day). > >In the past three years we've installed over 30 Tiico conversions. >Probably >in the neighborhood of 75 on the old CIS systems. We're also part of a >development team that completed and will very soon have available a chip >and >cam modification for the Tiico tested by Bosch and VW Racing of SA that >will make others (kits) very meek in comparison. So I feel we have some >experience in this area; enough to say that by far the Tiico kit is the >cleanest on the market. If that doesn't impress you, or you disagree and >claim issues grab a soda, this will take a little time. > >Recently a few customers forwarded emails to me regarding many of you out >there appearing to try to "split the atom" when it comes to this kit. My >customers were not concerned because in part their vans have many miles of >excellent running (from Vancouver to Mexico, to Montana, etc.)...they just >thought I'd be interested in all the "Bad Rap" that they weren't >experiencing. I just chuckled and deleted at first until I started >fielding >calls from people with little to no experience bashing the product only >because of this forum and asking us to do other installs. > >That's why I'm here and I'll gladly go head to head with any one of you to >straighten out all this slander from a relatively small group of inept >people with big mouths. > >Let's first deal with the so-claimed issues of Vibration. My intent is not >to appear pompous; it's just to simply state the facts. As I'm sure you >know when it comes to mounting the Tiico kit is derived largely, if not >solely, from it's sibling the diesel vanagon and '94 to '95 T-3 Volks Bus. >The engine cradles are the most recent diesel supersession - so those out >there spreading crap about the Tiico ones being old factory left-overs are >wrong, so shut it. Vibration, especially on the diesels, was something the >engineers put a great deal of time into...so all of you out there with all >this "free time" of "re-inventing the wheel" on how to get rid of >vibration...you may want to listen up. > >When installing the kit, just like any other, keep and adhere to simple >engine installation principles. I've had more vans with this kit show up >here to be straightened out where other garages and DIY's have failed. You >never install an engine by tightening down on one mount and then simply "go >around the horn" and then jam down on all the others. You'll have >vibration. You must hang the engine and transmission loosely and >manipulate >both with proper support until they sit at home where they really need to >go, not where one yanks them and tightens them to the body to make fit. >You >must tighten all hardware down evenly. Also, common sense tells you if you >have a bad front transmission mount (most are and seldom replaced), then >that will drastically reduce the effectiveness of your engine mounts >ability. What about badly damaged rear bumpers? How many vanagons do you >actually see with a flawless rear bumper...Think about it: if the van was >hit hard enough to stuff the bumper into the rear vallance, then your frame >where the brackets bolt may be bowed or slightly pushed in. The latter >would make it futile to impossible to limit all vibration. > >If all this is in order and complaints of vibration are still there, then: >the half moon adapter plates supplied in the kit which allow for an upper >third bolt to affix the cross members to the rear frame need to be welded. >Here's why. The diesel chassis already came with these pieces as part of >the frame. Some early waterboxer jobs came with one already there on the >passenger side. Some may say "Well that's not the problem." Let me tell >ya >something. If you don't weld these like they were on the diesels you may >find in the future one tearing away from the chassis because of the stress >to that upper third bolt...then you'll have more than vibration as an >issue. >Two tiny migwelds are all that are needed. They can be done easily as well >with the engine and transmission already in. Support your engine and >transaxle and remove your exhaust at the cat, and remove both engine >cradles. Next, snug the "half moon" plates to the frame with the 8mm x >1.25 >bolts supplied and after a slight grinding to the bracket and frame to >ensure a good weld, then mig a thin bead from north to south on both sides. >Take your 8mm bolts out, support the engine and trans and set them into >position and then tighten down on all hardware evenly. > >Next the left rear "D Pillar" fresh air snorkel...Use it...don't just make >an attempt and sit it there left unattached and say "it was too hard to >install..." and "it's not necessary..." Well it is . > >Oh - for all you exhaust geniuses out there, pay attention: Stop trying to >re-invent a system that works great. Stop cutting, hacking, and staving >the >header flex joint and welding to it etc....I've seen more cluster (you know >whats) when it comes to this than any other. It's not that hard. Get a >1.9L Vanagon mufler part # 025251051E or Ansa # VW 5845...they're cheap. >Also, you must have complete vanagon 2.1L '86 - '91exhaust brackets and >straps. If you're too cheap to buy new ones call me, I have some we've >built for less than 1/2. Grab a Bently manual and look at the 1.9L exhaust >picture section (very important). The picture shows the correct flange >positon, offset, and rotation of the cat and rear muffler. With this >exhaust it works perfect on the Boxer as well as the Tiico. With the 2.1L >brackets and straps and correct rotation positions you have an exhaust >system that's tucked in tight, perfectly horizontal, with no stress on the >header flex portion, and looks great. These headers do not simply crack on >their own. They've been so incorrectly installed with >cherry-bomb-after-market-garbage for silencers and all rotated the wrong >way. I haven't had one cracked header in 32 engines...don't you think if >it >was actually that big of a problem that I'd have one by now? > >If you have tirelessly attacked all of these issues - all of them - and are >still dissatisfied, here's another tip. The original diesel mount in the >cradles as I mentioned earlier had the bolt going in from north to south or >front to back of the vehicle instead of east to west. They also were >sandwiched between two welded pieces of flat stock to limit movement. The >newly designed cross members only have metal on one side with a dimple on >it >to mate with one side of the rubber mount. The dimple must line up and >mate. The bolts also only go from east to west leaving the bolt head to >absorb the entire flex of the mount. This producing a noticeable a problem >is extremely rare. If you run across this as being a source of vibration >simply cut a piece of flat stock with a 90 degree lip and a hole inthe >center (for bolt) to sandwich the mount together on both sides and weld it >to the crossmember. Again, it's very rare you'd get to this point but >some >vans have more harmonic vibrations than others. You're talking less than >10% for the fussiest of the fussy people who expect a cadillac ride out of >a >14 yr old van for all of $3.750.00 for the complete kit. > >Summary on exhaust and vibrations: > No engine or exhaust should ever be installed by tightening down on >one >unit then going to the next one. All must be tightenend evenly together >after both the engine and transmission are completely cop aesthetic with >their correct orientation. Remember a transmission on it's way out thats >been limping along, will only stick out that much more wtih a new engine >with almost twice the horse power. How are your carrier bearings? >Mainshaft >bearings? Syncro's?Front mount? take these seriously into consideration. > >Burnt pistons, fuel economy, and performance. First of all, those of you >without a VW/Audi Vag 1551, 1552, or assenmacher or equivalent diagnostic >equipment, take a step back and really ask yourself, "Am I in over my >head?" >"Is it past my bedtime yet?" OR at least maybe should I call someone who >can straighten out all these items for me. And the dealer may not be the >answer either. Not only have I not had a burnt piston in 32 engines; I've >actually pulled apart and reassembled and correctly set up other garage's >customers from the midwest to the east coast and they run beautifully with >no issues of this type afterwards. The Golf/Jetta inline is one of the >most >durable, easily assembled engines ever made. If I was the factory I >wouldn't warranty any burnt piston failures to you customers because they >know as well as all you engine rebuilders out there know the chances of it >being caused by any other than improper set up are nill to none. I will >explain why you get a burnt piston and why those of you who have had one >fail, fall into one of these catagories. > >I'm sure some of these you've heard already: A bad Injector(s) that is >re-used that was not working properly on your old boxer engine can't be >re-used. You must test them first. If everybody knows this then...stop >using them anyway. So with this in mind...The only reason a piston burns >up >in 2000 miles or less is because of either a very lean condition, or so >rich >you have washed that cylinder down with fuel completely, or a valve has >stayed stuck open or closed(which would cause either or). Also, half of >all >vanagons out there, Tiico or not, are running with 33 to 37 lbs of fuel >pressure and that is completely unacceptable. Fuel pressure is exactly 29 >lbs. No more, no less (Tiico or Boxer). 36 lbs with the vacuum >disconnected. If you're reusing your old pressure regulator do a fuel >pressure and vacuum test and make sure your old one is good. We replace 25 >or so Boxer customer's regulators a year...they all are at the same life >cycle. > >I know, I know. Many out there right now are saying well I did all that >and >it's still too lean. Well here you go: How advanced or improperly set is >your timing and what is your ECU throwing for codes? I always ask people >about this and they say,"Oh, um, ah, - no codes at all, never had any." >Well that's a lie. Codes are created on start up by connecting the ground >cable to the battery and must be cleared (every new car is like that). So >don't tell me that. Every Tiico must have codes cleared first, or it >cannot >accept any parameter values. Remember that Tiico timing and set up are not >exactly the same as a Golf or Jetta in most details. The only similarity >is >that the engine must be at operating temperature (fan cycled atleast once) >with codes cleared before timing and basic setting are initiated. I'm not >being insulting but I've had more people on the phone who thought they knew >how to use a digital advance timing light and they didn't. It's just a >fact >and they can be a little confusing. > >The yellow arrow on the lower timing cover is 0 or TDC. The yellow dot to >the left of that is 6 BTDC. It's hard to point the timing light through >the >license cover, so remove the two philips screws that hold the overflow tank >in and remove (you will replace later). Now you have easy access to the >crank pulley notch. With your RPM at 1450 NOT at IDLE Digitally set your >gun to 10 to 12 degrees. Loosen and rotate distributor till the crank >pulley notch lines up exactly with the arrow "0" on the timing cover. Lock >down the distributor. This eliminates guessing on the timing mark by >bringing it around so you can see it. Every other installation I've seen >has been set up way advanced or way retarded. Remember also - timing is >set >with engine RPM at 1450. If you're using a Vag 1551 or 1552 after codes >are >cleared and mixture adaptation within close range, go into basic setting >prompt 04 under engine electronics and the Vag 1551 or 1552 will >automatically raise the idle for you to 1450 through the ECU. After timing >is set and you cancel out of that screen the idle will drop back down to >900 - 950. Very simple. > >As I mentioned earlier, mixture adaptation has to be set prior to setting >the timing for ecu reference and then again after with a sniff test of CO%. >For those of you who don't know what a mixture adaptation setting is, again >ask yourself the same questions mentioned earlier because now it's really >getting late and way past your bedtime. Fuel mixture adaptation is set and >can vary according to your sea level and sniff pipe figures. I suggest >this >number is discussed with your Tiico supplier, but for example here we are >at >sea level we set the mixture to 00128 - 00129 accordingly with our exhaust >gas analyzer. Some folks in extreme elevation may be nearer to 00136 or >most extreme 00160. Your on board diagnostics codes OBDII USE THEM will >tell you if your mixture adaptation has exceeded it's limit. Finally, for >any of this to work your O2 sensor has to be wired in correctly to the ECU >and your sniff test must be at 0.725% to 1.25%. We like 1.0% as it is >usually a really safe number. All of this is mentioned several times on >tiico's installation guide and website. > >If Tiico is unavailable to help you with this, contact me at >jon@foreignautosupply.com and I'll help you. Guarenteed one or several of >these issues has to be off to burn a piston. An engine doesn't just burn a >piston or have poor fuel econmy because of assembly. 99 out of 100 times >it >is because of poor set up. It's the number one reason people complain of >17 - 18 mpg. All of this info is easily accessible as I said to you on the >Tiico web site. > >A final note on vibration, especially STD trans owners on "harmonic hum". >We install 5-speeds for many of our customers. Any Vanagon, waterboxer or >not, could use an extra gear. The 5-speed is an excellent marriage to this >or any other kit. > > A final note on burnt pistons, fuel economy, and set up as well as >performance. The VW factory SA or not, knows as well as you engine >builders >out there the truth to these issues. You guys have to stop being so >passive >aggressive and blaming others for "catastrophic engine failures" and >realize >either you or your installation site dropped the ball. > "Boston Bob" of Boston Engine Ex. and I have been friends for a long time >and just recently we discussed the horrors of building a product and >letting >others finish the reassembly of things such as a simple longblock, etc. >Then setting it up on their own. Other than communication and hoping your >customer follows all you've said you're kind of S.O.L. This is a much >bigger problem than you would think in the entire industry. Tiico is not >alone. And believe me I'm not getting paid to say that. I'm not connected >with Tiico in any way other than the fact that I buy the engines from them >and are part of the development team. > >The only problems I see with this kit is that unfortunately they actually >run pretty well for awhile even if they are set up poorly. That makes it >difficult for people to assume that there many be a "smoking gun". >Secondly, I think Peter B. at Tiico has naively assumed that alot of you >out >there know what you are doing. Or read all his install instructions. > >Oh - and Greg Dodge, scorpion09a@yahoo.com whomever you are out there. I >present a challenge to you personally. You seem to be running your suck >more than anyone on the forum...get a U-Haul and cart your bus out here to >us. I'll fix it free of charge and show you what went wrong. If not and >I'm in the wrong, I'll build a boxer engine and install it for free for you >or any other kit plus your U-haul charges. Mainly because others out there >aren't savy enough to know you're full of "fluff" and eventually you'll >start hurting the VW business as a whole and this site with your slander, >and that's not what this should be about. > >Jon@foreignautosupply;.com > >P.S. - If I can be of help to any of you please don't hesitate to contact >me >at (207) 833-0009.

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