Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:27:20 -0700
Reply-To: Strawn <scstrawn@EEE.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Strawn <scstrawn@EEE.ORG>
Subject: Dealer repair disaster '89 Westfalia
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello all,
I am new to this listserve, have searched the archives many times and
owe lots of people thank you's for the info there ... so, thank you!
Have a repair story (long, I do apologize ahead of time, and I'll try to
make short as possible) I could use some help with - not wanting to be
unreasonable but needing advice as to what I should/shouldn't do/pursue...
1989 Vanagon Westfalia camper - I'm the original owner, and I've treated
it well.
My longtime regular mechanic fell ill and retired. Very sad ... and it
gets sadder...
Developed sudden coolant leak - coolant on driveway, looked like heads
from location, searched the archives and found out about head problems,
20/20 hindsight, too little/too late, all that good stuff...
(Had minor leak 8/01, new water pump installed which we'll never know if
I really needed - new mechanic, no longer my mechanic, another story ...
still leaking though less, returned to same mechanic, 2 bottles of StopLeak
later, no more leak until 2/03)
2/18/03-Went to new mechanic recommended highly by many folks, he said
heads and he didn't do those, recommended dealer and specific mechanic
there, and off I went for "Check, advise coolant leak".
2/19-Service advisor said needed both heads and gaskets, quoted $2326+tx
(I'm in SoCal, so prices will probably seem exorbitant in the Real World)-I
ok'd.
2/27- Service advisor said also needed 4 injectors, studs,
AC/PS/Alternator belts ($1132) - I (whimpering) ok'd and said "You have it
torn down, I want it fixed up right, whatever it needs, just let me know".
3/17 (yes, that would be one month later, after much calling on my part
and lots of "maybe in a couple of days" and 2 service advisors later...) - I
pick up the van and fight over the $200 in unapproved charges and get it
home for $3661 including our exorbitant 7.75% SoCal sales tax. Tech notes
say: Left and right cylinder heads over heated, replaced left and right
cylinder heads and gaskets, replaced leaking coolant flanges, O rings,
sealant, replaced flange adapter and refilled coolant. Replaced studs, 4
injectors, inner and outer seals and fuel hose. Replaced A/C belt, Power
steering belt, alternator belt.
3/18-4/25 - no leaks, coolant level maintaining ok, drove it locally and
some freeway, all seemed ok.
4/25 - started out on long-anticipated vacation ... with little dog, 2
little old cats, one human friend along ... 36 miles out of town, on the
freeway, I suddenly lost power, made it to the shoulder (the good news, esp
in SoCal) - coolant light flashing but temp gauge ok, and there we sat,
vacation over. Checked in back - no coolant in fill bottle, some hissing and
steaming but not outrageous. Paid $232 to get towed back to dealer who had
done the work. Saturday Service Advisor no help at all - said check on
Monday.
4/28 (my birthday! ... told ya' it got sadder) - yet another (!) service
advisor said it popped a hose, coolant all drained out, now no compression,
probably internal engine damage, new heads may now be bad, quoted $1000 to
tear down and check out. I asked why coolant hoses hadn't been checked at
time of repairs (no, I didn't ask before; yes, I should have; no I didn't
know to ask) and he said he didn't know, and that if he'd been the service
advisor at the time he would have recommended all hoses be replaced due to
age of vehicle ... which I would have ok'd as I did the extra stuff they
recommended, and I did ask them to "do it right". But he wasn't and the tech
(personally recommended by first mechanic) didn't say anything about it or
have it down as a recommendation. Said it needed a new motor but motors no
longer available. I asked for a sit-down with service manager.
I called original mechanic who recommended dealer, asking if I was being
unreasonable in wanting them to take care of this, and he said he felt they
should cover all or at least give me a heck of a deal. Hoses should have
been checked and I should have had the chance to replace or decline.
Obviously I wasn't trying to get by on the cheap if I ok'd the additional
work, so hoses shouldn't have been an issue and should have been
recommended. I asked if he could do the work if they were giving me the
runaround and he said he could have my engine rebuilt if new heads were ok,
or install after market long block motor if needed.
4/29 - met with service manager- he said he would have recommended new
hoses, didn't know why it wasn't recommended but couldn't promise anything.
Finally (I kept after him for half an hour) said he would tear it down and
check it out for free, no promises beyond that except "deep discounts on the
labor and he wanted to treat me right". I asked what if the new heads were
now bad and he said "I would be very surprised if they aren't ok". Me: "but
what if they're not" SM: "well, we'd have to talk about that at the time."
He had no source for after market motor and said he'd talk to my mechanic
about his source and get back to me.
4/30 - Service manager offer (hasn't checked anything out on the van
yet): Labor free. Short block after market motor and all coolant hoses for
$1731 (regularly would be $4075), no compensation for tow back to them.
Motor warranty 12/12 with motor dealer, labor warranty with VW. To my
(again) "what if the new heads are damaged?" he said (again) "we'd have to
talk about that at the time." Told him I'd get back with him.
Talked to referring mechanic (by now he's nice enough to feel *really*
bad). He again said hoses should have been checked/replaced or at least the
recommendation made for me to accept/decline. Said he would have also
recommended water pump replacement even if only 1-1/2 years old and working
ok, since it has to be removed for repairs anyway. Also said that the VW
service manager did in fact call him for his source for a motor, but that
the motor they were talking about comes with heads (so why does service
manager keep giving me the runaround about "what if the new heads are bad"
and why does he say he's quoting for a short block motor?). Apologized for
referring me and suggested I hold my ground with them (very helpful with
info as well as moral support, and truly angry over the whole thing, says
never recommending these folks again - he could have put in a motor in the
beginning for less than what they will have charged me "giving me a deal").
Also recommended I call VW of America and see if they would intervene. I
have asked him to write up an estimate for repairs for him to do the work -
either new heads ok and rebuild my motor or after market long block motor if
heads thrashed, plus water pump and hoses as needed, etc.- and he is to get
back to me tomorrow with that.
Called VW of America and was told they could not mediate because it has
to do with workmanship of dealer, and each is an independent contractor.
Suggested that this did indeed sound very frustrating and suggested I
"follow all avenues available to me with the dealer". Said they would
document a complaint against the dealership and gave me a reference number.
Left message for service manager that I was waiting for indep mechanic's
estimate, that I thought they should do better, and that I'd call him
tomorrow.
Again I apologize for the length of this, but I would very much
appreciate any advice out there. My tendency is to tow the thing out of the
dealer and let my highly-recommended independent mechanic check it out and
do repairs. I have very little faith that the dealer will get it done right,
and now the service manager (who is now calling me "Sweetheart" and
"treating me like a girl", if you get my drift) is beginning to get
defensive and belligerent ... and oh so condescending. He says "this will
never fly in court, and I've been in a million of them". Great.
Oh yes, I didn't mention that when I picked it up the first time (after
one month!), the inside reeked of cat urine. Seems a shop cat got in the
van, got scared, anointed the driver's seat liberally. I was told of this by
the otherwise-useless Saturday Service Advisor who remembered the van when I
had it towed in ... only because of the cat incident...... sigh... talk
about adding insult to injury....
I don't want to be unreasonable, but I do want the best repair and also
compensation for damage caused by this hose which could so easily have been
replaced at the time the heads were replaced (can't get my vacation back
after all, and my birthday was certainly one I won't soon forget. Do I leave
it with the dealer? Is his offer reasonable? Do I take it out of there and
let the independent do the work and take this to court?
Any advice would be most appreciated!
Sally Strawn
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