Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 19:28:19 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Dealer Disaster (Update #2)
In-Reply-To: <000501c313e0$cc1c13a0$0d32fea9@s9p8m3>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Great pictures. Now for some more information. That hose did not fail
due to age. The way the cords are ripped indicates that the cooling
system became extremely over pressurized. The excess pressure caused the
hose to fail and a new hose would have only bought some time or some
thing would have failed else where. Now, how did the system become over
pressurized? There can be a number of causes but here are some that I
see frequently.
Although the heads were replaced, it is probable that they did not seal
correctly where the heads meet the cylinders. This is the common
internal head gasket leak that is the real kiss of death for the cooling
system. A compression and leak down test should have been performed
after the work was done and the engine was cycled and put under load for
a while. This condition will often not show up until a long drive at
highway speeds or extended operation climbing hills or slow traffic. As
the combustion gasses build up, two things can happen. The coolant will
eventually flow out of the pressure cap or the system will "vapor Lock"
and the coolant will stop flowing. The gasses will usually start to
collect in the main expansion tank often pushing the coolant low enough
to uncover the low coolant sensor and cause the red light to come on. At
this point, the engine needs to be shut down immediately. You can not
rely on the coolant gauge as the gauge sensor is not mounted on the head
or engine. In fact, it is mounted on a plastic manifold. The coolant
temperature sensor indicates the "bulk" coolant temp of the water
flowing through and out of the engine. When the coolant stops flowing,
the gauge will read the temperature of the coolant in that manifold, not
the actual engine temperature. That is why there is the low coolant
level warning light. When the water stops flowing, the heads will get
hot very fast. Without the coolant flowing, the water left in or near
them (depending on how much leaks out) will quickly turn to steam. At
this point, the heads gaskets (inner and outer) are gone and the head
will start to warp, pull out the studs, and the valves will start to
burn. If run like this long enough, the heads and possibly the pistons
will start to melt. Pinging and power loss is apparent. The relief valve
on the pressure cap can only vent so much, next goes the hoses or if
they don't fail, the radiator and heater cores will explode.
Now, what went wrong? In my opinion, the engine was not adequately
tested after the work was performed. Any engine can have internal leaks
or other failures after major repairs. Proper testing after the job is
often more important than the repair itself. In addition to shop
performing diagnostic tests after the work, additional driving and
observation should have been made before the onset of a long trip.
Erratic coolant temperature, coolant blowing out he back or bubbles in
the expansion tanks should have been observed be fore the failure. At
that point, this would be an easy warranty repair.
I seem to recall in an earlier post that while driving the low coolant
light came on, but since the temperature gauge appeared normal, you
continued driving, (I may be wrong). This creates a gray area as to who
is responsible. No warranty can be expected to cover abuse or
negligence. Continued operation like this is not any different than
operating the engine after you know you lost the oil pressure.
You will need to prove that the hose failure was actually caused by the
engine. Not that the hose caused the engine to fail. Age related hose
failures are usually small leaks or failures where the hoses are
connected, (under the clamps). Although the hose rubber deteriates with
age, the cords do not. That cord failure definitely indicates an over
pressure condition.
Good Luck, and I hope you win some relief,
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
Of Strawn
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:03 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Dealer Disaster (Update #2)
Got some nice (?) pictures of Supreme Mechanical Incompetence here:
http://members.uia.net/scstrawn/index.html
Still waiting to hear the full story from Erik the Indy.
Once again thanks to all who have written. I have gotten a
tremendous
amount of help with this - mechanical, legal, and moral support, and
sadly a
contact with someone else going through almost exactly the same
situation.
All were very helpful, gave me hints and reminders for my list of ammo
against the dealer, and info as to what to do to get the repairs done
right.
Again, you folks are great!
*Many* thanks from me and "Vanna White"!
Sally Strawn
| 
