Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:11:24 -0500
Reply-To: John Rodgers <j_rodgers@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <j_rodgers@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Alternate Fuels
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All this talk about bio-fuels as alternate fuels.....Hmmm!
I wonder who has done th calculations to see what the efficiencies are -
energy input to get the fuel vs. the energy output of the fuel.
Energy in to grow the crop: this includes all the farming fuels,
electricity, energy input in to the fertilizers required, energy into
shipping and delivering the fertilizers, to grow the crops, deliver to
the processing plants,
Energy required to process into a useable fuel, the energy input
required to dispose of the used bio-mass that is left after processing,
the energy required to deliver the fuels through the distribution system
to the vehicles.
Finally, the energy output in the fuel itself.
How do these compare to the current system?
I suspect that the bottom line is there is no comparison. The amount of
agriculture required to produce the fuels needed even at todays levels
of consumption would be overwhelming, much less the wastes left over.
Sort of like the pig farming that is going on now. For a while it seemed
a good thing mass producing pork. But now the biomass remaining from the
operations is beginning to overwhelm the ecosystem to the point of
poisoning the environment. Bluntly, I'm speaking of pig shit, folks!
It's become a major problem and getting worse. And the good folk in the
Carolinas are already getting a belly fully of the problem - poisoned
ground water and contaminated water table being part of it, and now
Oklahomians and the good folk in Utah are about to get theirs as well.
How about a 2,000,000 pig farm. Thats right - 2 million. Monster pig
farms are being constructed in both states. If you think cattle are
creating a problem, you ain't see nothing yet. And the scarey part is
that pigs have a propensity to become reservoirs for diseases that can
be transmitted to humans. Witness the farming practices in China where
many of our nasties come from - Ducks and pigs together make flu
viruses. Bad new. What will this bring here in the states. Many unknowns.
Meanwhile, who cares. There is money to be made!!. But at what cost to
the ecology and local lifestyles and health??
Aside from the pigs, hog manure makes methane, methane is a high energy
fuel. Has possibilities, but only if all the rest of it is handled
right, without screwing up the environment and making life generally
miserable for everybody.
Cattle have been a problem. Cattle farts are supposed to be damaging the
ozone layer. What is 2,000,000 pig farts going to do? And that's one
cycle of farts, and how many can one pig produce in a day. Raises some
interesting questions.
I drove across Montana - north to south - and the country stunk!!!
Planin and simple. Miles and Miles and Miles of stink. Cattle. I
continued into Wyoming , miles and miles and miles of stink. And the
mystery of it was I didn't see any great herds of cattle. Just a few
cattle. But I sure smelled the stench. I drove through Texas West of San
Antonio. Passed a stock yard - lots of cattle. Couldn't breath. Eyes
burned and watered, chest closed up, breathing became raspy, started
wheezing and coughng like a major asthma attack. Nothing helped. Windows
closed, air conditioner on, outside air intake closed......nothing
worked. I was at Albuquerque before I began to get any relief from the
reaction to what I had driven through - and that was just one stock yard
on the side of I-40 in Texas. There was no escape from it. it was right
on I-40. At least everyone going by was treated equally --- no
discrimination there . All go the full stockyard ammonia treatment. -
gallons and gallons of pee, tons of dung, flys, all rotting in the hot
sun, clouds of ammonia being released. - Yep we all got the equal
treatment!!
While we are in pursuit of alternate fuels, we had best be very careful
of where we go with this. The side effects could be bad news.
Recyclable fuels are the answer, but we have to be careful about what
some of the byproducts are. Bio fuel cells may be the answer, but even
those may have their problems.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver.
Bill Marshall wrote:
>What is anyone's opinion of using vegetable-generated fuels? Plants do a WAY
>better job of converting sunlight than any solar arrangement. Cars running
>on alcohol, diesels running on veg. oil. The existing fuel distribution
>infrastructure could remain in place.
>
>Maybe this would be a good intermediate step until Tiico comes out with a
>cold-fusion engine swap.
>
>Bill Marshall
>85 GL Tiico "Pandora's Box"
>Aurora, IL
>
>
>
