Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:23:52 -0400
Reply-To: Derek Drew <derekdrew@RCN.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Derek Drew <derekdrew@RCN.COM>
Subject: Re: Vanagon alternator too weak for Optimas.
In-Reply-To: <3F1F3445.6050509@mindspring.com>
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<font size=3>The charging voltage should be the pretty much same at the
alternator and also at the battery terminals and also at the fusebox.
<br><br>
If you turn on a lot of accessories (air conditioner, fans, headlights,
etc.) you will notice that the voltage is lower as you go progressively
forward. <br><br>
This is because the vehicle has inadequate wiring size between the
alternator and the huge battery wire going forward from the starter, and
also inadequate wiring size going forward from the battery to the fuse
box. You can correct this deficiency yourself by adding more wiring at
those locations in parallel with the existing factory wiring. I have done
this.<br><br>
For long term use, I would measure the voltage at the battery
terminals.<br><br>
I would then see if the setup could allow you in the cabin to turn the
charging voltage up to, say, 14.6 volts. I would do this initially after
I had run the battery down. Then, after I felt that the battery had been
charged properly, I would turn the voltage back down to 13.7 volts or
thereabouts for regular use.<br><br>
Before you get started, check to see what the charging voltage at the
battery terminals is normally. If it is lower than 13.7 volts, then you
might want to use that as the default charging voltage instead of
13.7.<br><br>
These are my thoughts. There are others on the list who may have a more
advanced view of this so I will cc to the list.<br><br>
Credit for the discovery of the excessive voltage drop with accessories
on goes to Dennis Haynes, who posted it to the Limbo newsletter (before
the Vanagon List got started!) so many of you may have missed this except
in cryptic additional comments that he may have made here. He refers to
running two #10 wires from the alternator to the fuse box, as I recall. I
did not do this. Instead, I ran an additional #4 wire from the alternator
to the huge battery-to-alternator wire and also, if I recall correctly,
an additional #2 wire from the battery forward to near the fusebox (for
my front winch wiring) and then an additional #8 wire or two from that #2
wire up to the fuse box area.<br><br>
At 06:20 PM 7/23/2003 -0700, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Will do.<br><br>
Do you know if it is best to measure the charging voltage from the
alternator, or from the battery cables?<br>
If you have any suggestions on tests to do, with and without, let me know
and I'll try to include them.<br><br>
regards,<br><br>
Todd<br><br>
Derek Drew wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Please report the results! Very
interested in this.<br><br>
9 AM 7/23/2003 -0700, you wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I have one in my hands, I will be
installing it in the next week or so.<br>
If there is interest, I'll be happy to report on the results.<br><br>
Todd<br>
'88 Westy<br><br>
Derek Drew wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Has anyone actually confirmed that
the link below leads to kits that can be installed in our
vehicles?<br><br>
These kits seem like a great way to be able to temporarily push a lot of
juice into the batteries in order to get them charged up fast and then
let the voltage come down after that.<br><br>
At 04:20 PM 7/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Or you could do the Volvo
fix<br><br>
<a href="http://www.linkline.com/personal/dbarton/AdjustableVoltage.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.linkline.com/personal/dbarton/AdjustableVoltage.html</a><br><br>
Mike<br><br>
At 01:21 PM 7/21/2003 -0700, Steve Delanty wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>At 12:42 PM 7/21/2003, you
wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>i read in the archives that Optima
does NOT recommend<br>
anything less than a 15 volt alternator output, if<br>
this is true, then we are all undercharging our<br>
optimas becouse the vanagon's Alt charges around<br>
13-14V.</blockquote><br><br>
[snip]<br><br>
The stock Bosch alternator is actually a pretty good piece.<br>
It's decently made and has good current capacity.<br>
The problem is that the crummy little internal regulator<br>
is lazy and tends towards low voltage. Also it measures<br>
the voltage *at the alternator* instead of at the battery<br>
so when the electrical load is high, the voltage drop<br>
across the charging wire (from alternator to battery)<br>
causes the battery to see very low charging voltage<br>
particularly under high electrical loads.<br><br>
A reasonably simple (and cheap!) cure is to remove the<br>
stock internal regulator, and replace it with a nice Ford<br>
style external regulator. This works VERY well on the<br>
Bosch alternator. You need to cut a couple leads on<br>
the back side of the internal Bosch regulator and solder<br>
1 wire on that will go out to the external (Ford) regulator.<br><br>
Also, while you are at it, run a small wire from the regulators<br>
"voltage sense" terminal up to the battery, so the
regulator<br>
measures the charging voltage AT THE BATTERY and<br>
compensates for the voltage drop across the charging wire<br>
and keeps the battery charge voltage much more constant<br>
regardless of electrical load.<br>
I did these things to the alternator that was in my vanagon<br>
and loved it.<br><br>
I don't have the URL's for the sites I found it at, but the<br>
external regulator conversion seems popular with the Volvo<br>
crowd. Type -Bosch Ford alternator- into a search engine and<br>
you should find several websites with instructions on doing<br>
the regulator swap.<br>
It's pretty easy and works GREAT!<br><br>
Steve<br>
EJ22 -> '86 Westy "Escape Pod"</blockquote><br><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Derek Drew <br>
CEO & Co-Founder<br>
ConsumerSearch, Inc.<br>
New York, NY & Washington DC<br>
derekdrew@rcn.com<br>
202-966-7907<br>
(cell) 703-408-1532<br><br>
<a href="http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0" eudora="autourl">http://www.ConsumerSearch.com/
</a>
<<a href="http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0" eudora="autourl">http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0</a>><br>
<<a href="http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0%A0" eudora="autourl">http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0%A0</a>><br>
Time Magazine, June 19, 2003<br>
"50 Best
Websites"</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>
Derek Drew
<br>
CEO & Co-Founder<br>
ConsumerSearch, Inc.<br>
New York, NY & Washington DC<br>
derekdrew@rcn.com<br>
202-966-7907<br>
(cell) 703-408-1532<br><br>
<a href="http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0" eudora="autourl">http://www.ConsumerSearch.com/
</a> <br>
<<a href="http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0%A0" eudora="autourl">http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0%A0</a>><br>
Time Magazine, June 19, 2003<br>
"50 Best Websites"<br>
</blockquote><br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
_______________________________________________<br>
Derek
Drew
<br>
CEO & Co-Founder <br>
ConsumerSearch, Inc.<br>
New York, NY & Washington DC<br>
derekdrew@rcn.com<br>
202-966-7907 <br>
(cell) 703-408-1532 <br><br>
<a href="http://www.consumersearch.com/%A0%A0%A0" eudora="autourl">http://www.ConsumerSearch.com/
</a> <br>
Time Magazine, June 19, 2003<br>
"50 Best Websites"<br><br>
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