Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:54:39 -0700
Reply-To: Tom Young <tomyoung1@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Young <tomyoung1@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Vanagon Double Relay wiring confusion
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hey Robert:
Thanks for the reply. I *do* want to get this right. I'm looking at the
Bentley, but, because I'm not really experienced in reading wiring diagrams
I'm not sure I'm following along properly. I'd like to respond to what you
said, just to see if I understand.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Keezer" <warmerwagen@hotmail.com>
To: <tomyoung1@COMCAST.NET>; <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Vanagon Double Relay wiring confusion
> One easy way to explain the relays is this: 30 is Battery positive always
> hot, 15 0r 86 is Key-on or switched -on power to the computer power relay
> and the fuel pump relay.
I see a "terminal 30" over on the starter, and I think it sends power via a
red wire over to terminal 88y and, I guess, terminal 88z on the double
relay?
> 85 is ground or NEG, but the two relays are grounded differently. The ECM
> terminal 85 goes to frame ground.
Does "ECM" = "Electronic Control Module" = "ECU" = "Electronic Control Unit"
= what most of us call "the computer?" If so, then I must admit I'm lost
here. When I look at the Bentley manual it shows a white wire coming out
off of terminal 85 and running over to terminal 28 on the big black
connector to the computer. If "ECM" *isn't* "the computer" but refers to
the fuel pump relay, and if the term "frame ground" refers to a wire running
over to a screw screwed into the frame itself, then that's exactly what I've
got, and maybe that's the way it's supposed to be. (I was suspect of this
lash-up because the wire was amateurishly attached to the connector in the
white plug, but maybe someone pulled the original wire off somewhere along
the way.)
> The fuel pump ground goes to the ECM , which goes to terminal 28 of the
ECM,
> which controls the ground for the fuel pump relay.
Now see, the way I read the Bentley - and again, I floundering around here -
the fuel pump is grounded via a "frame ground" (which I am defining for the
moment as "grounded via a wire attached to the frame") listed at ground
connector 18 which Bentley says is "at fuse/relay panel." And it gets its
power via terminal 88d of the fuel pump relay.
> If the PO has changed the color codes in the harness, then you should get
> the color codes right first, then trace every wire.
The only wire that looks at all "out of place" on the two white connectors
that attach to the fuel pump relay was that one single wire that goes to
terminal 85 of the fuel pump relay. It was looking at the Bentley and
thinking it *should* be a white wire running over to terminal 28 of the
computer connection that got me asking the list about it.
> Get a Bentley to do it right or you risk frying something, as the white
> wires serve a variety of inputs, like the auxilliary air regulator and
cold
> start valve, fuel pump, etc.
Since the vehicle was running fine with that original configuration I
figured frying something wasn't the issue, but I wondered if there were any
safety issues, like the fuel pump not shutting off if the engine stopped
running but the ignition key was in the "run" mode. I wonder if the Bentley
wiring diagram is just plain wrong about the wiring of this particular
terminal.
Thanks again!
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Young '81 Vanagon
Lafayette, CA 94549 '82 Westfalia
---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Tom Young <tomyoung1@COMCAST.NET>
> Reply-To: Tom Young <tomyoung1@COMCAST.NET>
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Vanagon Double Relay wiring confusion
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:38:09 -0700
>
> Hi all:
>
> When I purchased my '82 Federal Westfalia last year I dropped the engine
and
> all the related electronics (e.g., wiring harness, AFM, ICU, ECU, etc.)
out
> of my '81 California Vanagon and installed it in the Westfalia. I'm
making
> the Westfalia "Federal" again and I have a question regarding the double
> relay and its wiring.
>
> As you know, the dual relay has two plugs that go into it. The plug that
> connects on the right side has all white wires coming out of it and these
> wires all disappear into the wiring harness that runs across the front of
> the engine.
>
> Question: I assume this is the side of the double relay that stays active
> while the engine is running, controlled by the switch in the AFM?
>
> The plug that connects on the left side of the double relay has wires that
> are all colored, (red, black, blue/red, etc.) and these wires disappear
into
> a sheath that goes into the connection box on the left side of the engine
> compartment.
>
> Question: I assume this is the "startup" portion of the relay, energized
> initially by the starter motor being activated?
>
> Anyway, back when I removed the Federal engine and its components I
noticed
> that the left side plug (colored wires) had a black wire that came out of
> one of the connectors on the plug with the other end attached to a screw
on
> the front firewall. Clearly a non-factory modification. What I'm trying
to
> understand is what this wire is doing (well, it's obviously grounding that
> connection) and how it fits into the original scheme of things.
>
> The black wire in question goes into the terminal marked "3" on the plug
> which fits into terminal "85" on the relay. Looking at the wiring
diagram,
> it appears that the wire coming out of this terminal should be white,
going
> on over to terminal 28 at the ECU.
>
> Question: is this correct?
>
> Since the vehicle was running in its "Federal" configuration when I bought
> it, I guess that the ECU must be grounding this terminal as well. But,
are
> there any "issues" with having the terminal permanently grounded, the way
it
> is? Off hand, it doesn't seem like there could be, since the left side of
> the dual relay is energized only when the starter motor is turning over
and
> is out of the game otherwise.
>
> Any Vanagon electrical experts out there that can help me out here?
>
> TIA!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Young '81 Vanagon
> Lafayette, CA 94549 '82 Westfalia
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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