Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:49:07 +0100
Reply-To: Tony Polson <tp@WHSMITHNET.CO.UK>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tony Polson <tp@WHSMITHNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Hard starting 84 vanagon - stumped
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Brian Keese wrote:
>
> Hi List,
>
> Well, I've joined the list again after a two-year hiatus -
last time I was on the list it was mostly for fun. This
time it is unfortunately by necessity.
> I wonder if anyone can offer any advice to my mechanic in
fixing my 84 Vanagon, 'The Ark'. He doesn't have e-mail.
>
> Here's my description of the behavior:
> I turn the key to start the van.
> The van cranks and cranks and eventually starts.
> Sometimes it needs to crank for up to a minute, then it
starts and runs just fine.
> I don't know if it is related, but the van has always (in
the 4 years I've owned it) run a little rough after warming
up half way - sometimes stalling. When cold and fully warmed
up it runs fine.
> I never worried much about this because it would always
just start right back up and I could keep on trucking. Now
when it stalls, I can't get it to start back up and I'm
afraid of causing an accident. That's why I brought it in to
be checked out.
>
> I brought it to a mechanic who I trust and he went through
all the normal testing procedures. Everything checked out
OK, so he had me send the ECU in to be checked out. I sent
it to Darrell Boehler and he checked it out on the bench for
a few hours. Everything checked out OK. He sent me a
road-tested ECU from an 85. My mechanic put it in and the
van still exhibits the same behavior. He doesn't know what
else to do.
>
> Here's what he said:
> When the van doesn't want to start, the injectors are
getting no ground signal from the ecu.
> He checked and replaced all the grounds as necessary.
> He went through the testing procedures for each of the
injection system sensors - all test OK, even the TEMP2
sensor. (He did comment that the problem doesn't seem to be
temperature related.) At first he thought the hal sensor
was bad, but then further testing proved it to be OK.
> Of course, he also checked the fuel pressure and spark and
they checked out OK.
>
> Any hints or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Brian Keese
>
> BTW: I read on the list about a weak starter causing
somewhat similar behavior. I know my starter needs a
rebuild (sometimes I have to bang on it to get it to turn
over). Maybe it's just that the starter is bad and his
testing methods are off a bit. I doubt it, but I thought
I'd just throw that out there.
Hi Brian,
I had a similar problem after leaving my van standing for
several months - I had a small electrical fire behind the
dash and it took me some time to get around to fixing it.
By the time I did I had a "lazy starter" and the engine
simply would not fire. I even changed the battery for a new
one ... still wouldn't fire.
Your last paragraph (BTW ...), especially your suggestion
that your starter is "slow", and the fact that your mechanic
suspected a ground problem suggests that you may have the
same problem ... on my van, the ground strap between the
engine/gearbox and body was not making a full electrical
connection at one or both ends. This resulted in the
starter motor hogging all the battery power and only reduced
voltage being available at the engine management system -
that reduced voltage being insufficient to fire the
ignition.
Merely replacing the strap is not enough; you need to clean
the surfaces with which the ground strap makes electrical
contact. You need to do it thoroughly. The body connection
will suffer from rust and electrolytic corrosion. The rust
should be sanded back to bare metal before fitting the new
ground strap, and the whole area should be coated with
underbody seal to delay any future problems in that area.
The earth strap connection to the engine crankcase will
suffer from aluminum corrosion, and the white oxide of
aluminum is a very effective insulator. Once again, sand to
bright metal and coat the finished connection with some
protective coating so as to delay any recurrence of the
problem.
I intend to fit at least one additional ground strap in the
hope that my van won't suffer from this problem again for
some years. I know that I will have a lot of other problems
to contend with in that time, so avoiding any repeat
performances from the ground straps seems like A Good Idea
...
I hope this works for you.
Best regards,
Tony
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