Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:58:58 -0500
Reply-To: Brian Keese <bkeese@DIRECWAY.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Brian Keese <bkeese@DIRECWAY.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard starting 84 vanagon - stumped
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Thanks to all who offered advice about my hard starting 84 vanagon.
Ideas offered included:
Check hall unit
Check grounds
Check fuel pump is running
Check fuel pump has back pressure
Check idle stabilizer
Maybe a valve isn't closing completely
Try a different wiring harness
Check Temp II sensor
Lazy Starter
My mechanic says he got tired of checking all the components of the FI system (he had had the van for three weeks now), so he assumed it was either the power to the ECU or the ground(s). He replaced the ignition switch relay, the main ground strap from the crankcase to the frame, and moved the grounds from the engine to directly connect to the frame. One of these three things fixed the problem. I have a feeling it was the grounds because that is what everyone immediately said to check (and my mechaninc said he did).
So, three weeks and $750 bucks later, the Ark is back on the road. Yippy.
Thanks again to all those who offered advice.
Brian Keese
84 Westy Wolfsburg - The Ark
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Keese
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:40 PM
Subject: Hard starting 84 vanagon - stumped
Hi List,
Well, I've joined the list again after a two-year hiatus - last time I was on the list it was mostly for fun. This time it is unfortunately by necessity.
I wonder if anyone can offer any advice to my mechanic in fixing my 84 Vanagon, 'The Ark'. He doesn't have e-mail.
Here's my description of the behavior:
I turn the key to start the van.
The van cranks and cranks and eventually starts.
Sometimes it needs to crank for up to a minute, then it starts and runs just fine.
I don't know if it is related, but the van has always (in the 4 years I've owned it) run a little rough after warming up half way - sometimes stalling. When cold and fully warmed up it runs fine.
I never worried much about this because it would always just start right back up and I could keep on trucking. Now when it stalls, I can't get it to start back up and I'm afraid of causing an accident. That's why I brought it in to be checked out.
I brought it to a mechanic who I trust and he went through all the normal testing procedures. Everything checked out OK, so he had me send the ECU in to be checked out. I sent it to Darrell Boehler and he checked it out on the bench for a few hours. Everything checked out OK. He sent me a road-tested ECU from an 85. My mechanic put it in and the van still exhibits the same behavior. He doesn't know what else to do.
Here's what he said:
When the van doesn't want to start, the injectors are getting no ground signal from the ecu.
He checked and replaced all the grounds as necessary.
He went through the testing procedures for each of the injection system sensors - all test OK, even the TEMP2 sensor. (He did comment that the problem doesn't seem to be temperature related.) At first he thought the hal sensor was bad, but then further testing proved it to be OK.
Of course, he also checked the fuel pressure and spark and they checked out OK.
Any hints or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Brian Keese
BTW: I read on the list about a weak starter causing somewhat similar behavior. I know my starter needs a rebuild (sometimes I have to bang on it to get it to turn over). Maybe it's just that the starter is bad and his testing methods are off a bit. I doubt it, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.