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Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:24:16 +1200
Reply-To:     Andrew Grebneff <andrew.grebneff@STONEBOW.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Andrew Grebneff <andrew.grebneff@STONEBOW.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject:      Re: Propane Fueled Turbo Diesel Injection
In-Reply-To:  <3F6DEBA3.2000605@charter.net>
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii

>Just watched a program on the tube called "Trucks". Featured this week >was a modification of a Chevy diesel engine to accept propane fuel. > >Didn't catch the whole thing, but this is what I did get. > >Chevy diesel engine was dyno'ed at 190 BHP. A bolt-on propane injection >kit was added and the engine dyno'ed at 400 BHP, ran totally clean, and >specific fuel consumption was reduced, equating to improved mileage per >gallon.

Everyone I have talked to has said that Chev V8 diesels are best avoided. Not reliable.

Most diesel engines will not last for more than a few minutes when the power-output is multiplied in this way without major modifications; they are not designed to handle the stresses. Collapsed pistons, head and conrod damage will likely result.

Propane doesn't have a huge calorific value, and I very much doubt that such a power increase will result from merely converting to the different fuel. Now, if the diesel was running GASOLINE it would be a different story.

Small diesels are racing and winning against gas care on European racetracks (2.0 Golfs & BMWs), putting out 400hp, so high outputs ARE possible from diesels. BUT these racing engines will gulp fuel, negating the main reason for having a diesel in the first place. Now, IF it were possible to have a 400hp economical reliable diesel, I'd certainly look at modifying my Corolla diesel...

Someone mentioned getting more power from a diesel just by turning up the fuelpump. That's a BIG NO-NO!! All this will result in is high fuel consumption, obnoxious black smoke and increased engine-wear due to fuel-dilution of the sump oil (and cylinder-wall wash). Bad news. In third-world countries the bush mechanics chronically wind the pumps up, hence all the smoke-balching diesels. I drove about 80km in Fiji once in an airconditioned car... with the windows open because the Indian passengers don't like aircon... and when I wiped my face afterward the towel was very dirty. Diesel-derived soot. Guess why there are so many stuffed diesels in these places!

>Yeah, you can burn any combustible gas in a diesel. Since ignition doesn't >occur until the diesel is sprayed it's simply a matter of keeping the gas >mixture lean enough to prevent preignition.

Yes, but injection-timing is critical, and will differ between fuels. Higher-flashpoint fuels will require timing to be retarded compared to distillate (so-called "diesel" fuel). Such fuels will require a lowered compression.

Here in NZ gasoline costs about $2.40US/imperial gallon. Diesel is about $1.76, plus a "road-user charge" which you buy in km, still makes diesels far cheaper to run.

I believe diesels make up over 50% of new-car sales in Europe, where (with the exception of England) it's less expensive than gas.

LPG (propane)? Low calorific value, so a gas car run on LPG will lose power... and though the unit price of LPG might be cheap here in NZ, the car will gulp the stuff (experience here with taxi fleets). A diesel car here is way cheaper to run than a gas car of the same model running LPG. The Ford BA Falcon (Aussie) is now available as a dedicated CNG (compressed natural gas) option.

Besides, an LPG or CNG car is a bomb. Saw a video of a CNG Holden Commodore in Australia burning... when the tank went up, you wouldn'tve wanted to've been closer than 100m away. These things don't give a gentle "whump" and a hiccup of flame as a gasoline car would (such cars' tanks do not explode).

>I'm not sure the VW diesel block and head can stand much more output when >used in the heavy vanagon. The oil temp in my TD westy >would go through the roof on long hills. Exhaust gas temp would get too high >as well. Water temp would be normal. >I would suggest to anybody who has modified their turbo diesel to get a >pyrometer for the exhaust. On hills, I would basically drive only as fast >as the pyrometer >told me I could. > >Intercooling worked as expected, for every degree you lowered the charge >temp, the EGT would be lowered by the same amount.

Water-injection to lower temperatures? And add further complexity...

LPG, CNG or hydrogen however in a way is an ideal diesel fuel... no carobn particles, so oil will remain clean and not score bores, bearings etc... and no more indelibly carbon-blackened hands! -- Andrew Grebneff Dunedin, New Zealand 64 (3) 473-8863 <andrew.grebneff@stonebow.otago.ac.nz> Fossil preparator Seashell, Macintosh & VW/Toyota van nut


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