Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:34:38 -0800
Reply-To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: TiiCo California Smog Legal!
In-Reply-To: <AIEFIGCNNANNIHLNFBPEGEDCKFAA.vanagon@volkswagen.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
No worries... found it... and it upsets me to read it... people aren't
being told the truth.
I find it interesting reading, comparing the CARB EO to the Tiico web site
and then to real life.
TIICO.COM WEB SITE:
"BRAND NEW! 2.0 liter engine (118 hp @ 4800 rpm / 132 ft/lb. torque @ 3500
rpm. 10:1 compression ratio with anti knock sensor"
"engine management system (Bosch Motronic MP 9.0)"
CARB EO:
"South African rebuilt 1991 Audi 80/90 2.0L 4 cylinder engine with a
1993-1996 Golf/Jetta intake manifold"
"ECU Utilized is the stock 1991 Audi 80/90 unit, p/n 893 907 404
(California)."
VW TECHNICAL REFERENCE:
1991 Audi 80/90 Engine: 2.0L, 115hp, 122ft.lbs, K-Motronic with catalyst.
The engine code is AAD or 3A.
REAL LIFE:
There was never an Audi 80/90 of any model year sold with a Mono-Motronic
system. The 1991 Audi 80/90 is a CIS-Motronic vehicle. This can be
identified by the presence of a silver colored fuel distributor on the air
cleaner box similar to the pre 1987 VW Golf and Jetta. This fuel
distributor has four braided metal fuel lines that go to individual fuel
injectors in the cylinder head. There is no fuel rail on the cylinder head.
The rate of fuel flow is controlled by the how far up the flap goes in the
air box and it is continuously injector - system fuel pressure is around 80
PSI
The fuel injection system and the cylinder head used on the Tiico engine is
a Bosch Mono-Motronic system which is the same as what was found on the
Canadian and European 1993 to 1997 1.8L Golf CL. This is identified by a
fuel rail and electronically controlled injectors. There is no air flow
meter but a MAP sensor. System pressure is around 30 PSI.
There is no interchangeable parts on these two fuel injection systems.
CONCLUSION:
Something doesn't jive. The ECU and the motor they describe in the EO isn't
a Mono-Motronic system. Tiico claims they are selling a new motor, when the
EO says it is a rebuilt motor. The 2.0L motor (both the Audi 80 and the VW
Jetta) have 115hp@5400 and 122ft.lbs@3200 of torque, no where on this planet
is it officially sold with 118hp and 132 ft.lbs of torque.
I'm not saying that their kit is a bad kit and I am not wishing anyone bad
will, I am concerned that is a mis-representation going on somewhere. I am
sure someone will clue me in and clarify these discrepancies.
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
- Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
- Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation
- European Lighting for most Volkswagen models
Due to the large volume of email we receive, PLEASE include previous
emails when responding. This will allow us to read the complete dialogue
in one message and will result in quicker and more accurate responses.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of David Marshall
Sent: January 14, 2004 7:21 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: TiiCo California Smog Legal!
I saw a diagram and some stickers, but where is the actual written EO that
lists the part numbers of the approved parts? There is a nasty rumour going
around that I have heard from a few people that a North American Audi ECU
was used to get the CARB EO number. I find this hard to believe, but if it
is true it would not be a good thing. If anyone has a copy of the written
EO I would love to see it.
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
- Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
- Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation
- European Lighting for most Volkswagen models
Due to the large volume of email we receive, PLEASE include previous
emails when responding. This will allow us to read the complete dialogue
in one message and will result in quicker and more accurate responses.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Ryan Alfonso
Sent: January 14, 2004 7:04 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: TiiCo California Smog Legal!
I was curious about this too. I contacted the California Air Resources
board. They sent me a copy of the Executive Order proclaiming the
"legality" of the TiiCo conversion (D-573).
If you're curious, have a look at it. I've posted it to the TiiCo yahoo
group in the "files" section. Seems pretty legally binding to me.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tiico/
A few weeks back I tested it -- I had to smog my TiiCo'd van. The only
problem I had was that my local smog dood wasn't really used to looking at
an EO. He was puzzled to say the least. He made a few phone calls, then
gave it the once over. Pass!
Ryan in Half Moon Bay, CA.