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Date:         Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:33:22 -0500
Reply-To:     ROBERT DONALDS <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         ROBERT DONALDS <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Subject:      Re: westy propane in europe
Comments: To: Art McGinn <ajmcginn@EARTHLINK.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Art I build allot of propane engines for the Zamboni ice resurfaces here in the states. Its my understanding that in Europe propane as a fuel is more popular and cheaper to run than gas (petrol) so I'm told. Most cars are converted and run as dual fuel setups that is to say the engine is warmed up on gas and then when the engine has enough heat to convert the propane to a vapor from a liquid the engine then transitions to propane. The problem with using propane in an air-cooled engine placed in a sever duty application (82 vans and 7000 lbs zanbonis) is that there is no liquid entering the combustion camber. For instance the amount of BTU's required to melt an ice cube is one fifth the amount it takes to evaporate the water that came from that ice cube. This is called the latent heat of vaporization. The air-cooled engine has all it can do to survive the new fuels that are designed to runs cars with fuel management systems and knock sensors never mind propane as a fuel. The propane engines I build have non heat treated valve seats, increased piston to skirt clearance and a 7 to 1 compression ratio. These engines last 1 to 7 years depending on the amount of time they are run. In other words the rinks that uses the zamboni up to 4 hours at a time might get a year out of a pair of my heads while another rink that used the zamboni for 45 minutes at a time get 4 years out of a Boston Engine and the rinks that use the zamboni for 10 minutes at a time gets 7 plus years. The point is that the air-cooled engine has an infinite ability to accumulate heat in the heads and oil depending on load, time driven and fan intake temp. The zamboni does run in a cold ice rink so you would think that the fan intake temp is low. The truth of the mater is that the bug engine when its in a bug uses the body of the bug as a apart of the cooling system keeping the hot air coming off the heads and cylinder fins from finding its way back into the cooling fan. The zamboni has no such separation so hot air reenters the cooling fan. My conclusions are that the air-cooled zamboni was designed buy somebody with an water-cooled background and some other equally bright fellow decided propane would lower the emissions of an internal combustion engine used indoors. Is that more than you wanted to know or what? doing my part to make ice for 20 years I remain Bob Donalds http://www.bostonengine.com all rights reserved

----- Original Message ----- From: "Art McGinn" <ajmcginn@EARTHLINK.NET> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: westy propane in europe

> folks: for anyone following the westy-propane-in-europe thread, here's a > note from a firm in blighty. cheers, art '82 westy > > --------------- > > Dear Art > The (propane) adaptors we have just screw on and off your tank and then the > dispensing equipment fits onto the adaptor, hence different adaptors for > different equipment. These are the only 2 adaptors that our customers need > when they travel throughout europe, however lpg is very difficult to get in > Spain and Portugal. > Kind regards > Paul Dudley > ############################################## > > We would like to take this opportunity to wish all of our > customers A Happy New Year. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > DUDLEYS AMERICAN MOTORHOMES (Oxfordshire, England) > 01993 703774 > DYNAMAX, MANDALAY, ONAN AND > WINNEBAGO MAIN AGENTS FOR EUROPE > SALES, SERVICE AND REPAIRS. > FANTASTIC SELECTION OF NEW MOTORHOMES. > ALWAYS OVER 50 USED MOTORHOMES IN STOCK. > www.dudleysrv.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >


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