Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:33:22 -0500
Reply-To: ROBERT DONALDS <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: ROBERT DONALDS <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: westy propane in europe
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Art
I build allot of propane engines for the Zamboni ice resurfaces here in
the states. Its my understanding that in Europe propane as a fuel is more
popular and cheaper to run than gas (petrol) so I'm told. Most cars are
converted and run as dual fuel setups that is to say the engine is warmed up
on gas and then when the engine has enough heat to convert the propane to a
vapor from a liquid the engine then transitions to propane.
The problem with using propane in an air-cooled engine placed in a sever
duty application (82 vans and 7000 lbs zanbonis) is that there is no liquid
entering the combustion camber. For instance the amount of BTU's required to
melt an ice cube is one fifth the amount it takes to evaporate the water
that came from that ice cube. This is called the latent heat of
vaporization. The air-cooled engine has all it can do to survive the new
fuels that are designed to runs cars with fuel management systems and knock
sensors never mind propane as a fuel. The propane engines I build have non
heat treated valve seats, increased piston to skirt clearance and a 7 to 1
compression ratio. These engines last 1 to 7 years depending on the amount
of time they are run. In other words the rinks that uses the zamboni up to
4 hours at a time might get a year out of a pair of my heads while another
rink that used the zamboni for 45 minutes at a time get 4 years out of a
Boston Engine and the rinks that use the zamboni for 10 minutes at a time
gets 7 plus years. The point is that the air-cooled engine has an infinite
ability to accumulate heat in the heads and oil depending on load, time
driven and fan intake temp. The zamboni does run in a cold ice rink so you
would think that the fan intake temp is low. The truth of the mater is that
the bug engine when its in a bug uses the body of the bug as a apart of the
cooling system keeping the hot air coming off the heads and cylinder fins
from finding its way back into the cooling fan. The zamboni has no such
separation so hot air reenters the cooling fan.
My conclusions are that the air-cooled zamboni was designed buy somebody
with an water-cooled background and some other equally bright fellow decided
propane would lower the emissions of an internal combustion engine used
indoors.
Is that more than you wanted to know or what?
doing my part to make ice for 20 years I remain
Bob Donalds
http://www.bostonengine.com
all rights reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art McGinn" <ajmcginn@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:18 PM
Subject: westy propane in europe
> folks: for anyone following the westy-propane-in-europe thread, here's a
> note from a firm in blighty. cheers, art '82 westy
>
> ---------------
>
> Dear Art
> The (propane) adaptors we have just screw on and off your tank and then
the
> dispensing equipment fits onto the adaptor, hence different adaptors for
> different equipment. These are the only 2 adaptors that our customers need
> when they travel throughout europe, however lpg is very difficult to get
in
> Spain and Portugal.
> Kind regards
> Paul Dudley
> ##############################################
>
> We would like to take this opportunity to wish all of our
> customers A Happy New Year.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> DUDLEYS AMERICAN MOTORHOMES (Oxfordshire, England)
> 01993 703774
> DYNAMAX, MANDALAY, ONAN AND
> WINNEBAGO MAIN AGENTS FOR EUROPE
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