Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:28:35 -0600
Reply-To: tom ring <taring@TARING.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: tom ring <taring@TARING.ORG>
Organization: Tippen Ringware
Subject: Re: "green" cars (NVC)
In-Reply-To: <CHEMIOFEMIHINDCEBODPIEAJDGAA.steven@epochdesign.com>
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What most people don't seem to understand, is we have to get that energy from
somewhere. The only practical large scale sources right now are oil, coal,
relatives of the previous 2, hydro, and nuclear. Of the "clean" alternatives,
wind and solar will never cut it in the near future, and probably not ever due
to the low power density of what they run off from, and hydro is maxed out, and
has it's own environmental problems.
And soybeans, alcohol, etc don't count, 'cause they take about as much energy
to produce them as they deliver.
So no matter what fuel you run in your vehicle, it's not going to be derived
from anything new in your lifetime. Bet you lunch.
tom
On 16 Feb 2004 at 16:34, Steven Dodson wrote:
> Sad but true.
> It's unfortunate that the oil tyrants are pushing their petrol-hydrogen crap
> as the next generation fuel. They're cramming it down the throats of
> Congress with their entourage of lobbyists.
> This is sad, when there is perfectly clean hydrogen available from
> electrolysis of water using energy from the sun. There are very highly
> efficient hydrogen generation machines that produce clean hydrogen at
> 250psi, powered by electricity from solar, wind or whatever. You would still
> need to compress it further for efficient storage as you would with any
> hydrogen.
> Even more sad, when petrol-hydrogen is nearly as costly to produce as the
> clean stuff.
>
> I heard that Iceland is going 100% hydrogen (made from water) within 5
> years. They are a huge producer of Aluminum products.
> The goal is to create an autonomous energy economy and clean up their
> industry and environment.
> This is a worthy goal!
>
> -Steven Dodson
> Kneeland, CA
> "Inga" the 87 Syncro (soon to be bio-TDI)
>
>
>
> >Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:33:58 -0500
> >From: Tim Demarest <tim.demarest@POBOX.COM>
> >Subject: Re: "green" cars (NVC)
>
> >...and before anyone spouts off about that wonderful hydrogen technology,
> >remember that the current technology for manufacturing hydrogen is to crack
> >hydrocarbons... that's right, they still run (indirectly) on crude.
>
> >http://www.engr.psu.edu/h2e/Production.htm
>
------
Tom Ring K0TAR, ex-WA2PHW EN34hx
85 Westphalia GL Albert
96 Jetta GL The Intimidator
taring@taring.org
"It is better to go into a turn slow, and come out fast, than to go into a turn fast
and come out dead." Stirling Moss
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