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Date:         Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:42:00 EST
Reply-To:     RAlanen@AOL.COM
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Frank Condelli <RAlanen@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: problems installing second battery
Comments: cc: jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 15/03/2004 12:04:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM writes:

The full detail, along with a couple of pictures to explain, is on the web here: http://users.rcn.com/jhecht/batteries. The basic situation is that I bought an Optima yellow-top, and on the instructions of someone in an RV shop we bought an isolator (the type with two diodes inside to direct current) that is used by RV folks to connect their second battery. Steve first wired the old battery to the isolator, and with just that connected the van wouldn't start. He checked it and played with it but couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. It was dark out by then, so we couldn't experiment further, but he also felt he needed more knowledge than we had.

If you think you might have any suggestions, please take a look at the website, which includes the wiring chart we're following, photo of the old battery explaining what we connected (bad quality, unfortunately, it was dark when I took it), and a list of hypotheses as to what might be wrong. And if you reply, PLEASE copy Steve on your email I did not copy Steve as I don't find his email address in your message

(all those ormswyn addresses - I don't know which he actually checks) so he'll be able to mull over your thoughts. He's not on the vanagon list.

Joy, I just went through this process on my Westy and helped out a few others with info. See the archives for lots more details. First thing I will say to you is to use the Sure Power model 1315 to bridge your two batteries. Of all the methods I have personally tried this one is the most successful in all respects albeit more expensive but in the long run it is the best way period. I am going to copy below a few messages I sent to others who involved in the same task as you and hopefully all this info gets into the archiove for future benift of all. Good luck and hope to see you soon at Everybus. Start of copied messages ............ <<<<<No, I did not miss you post. I've been mulling over all the advice on this issue now for a few days and decided that the Sure-Power gadget was the right way to go. Called up to the local RV place and they had two in stock at $124. Went up and got one and spent most of Monday installing it. I see a big difference in the voltage of the aux battery after shutting down the van after short runs now. Battery is always up to above 13 volts at shut down. I chose to use the aux battery start option so ran a #4 wire from the main battery to the aux battery under the van. Ran a # 14 wire up to the start switch for the start position trigger. The two batteries need to have a large wire connecting them, this idea of a 14 gauge wire to limit the dumping of the main battery into the aux battery at start up is not right. It limits the charge to the aux battery on short hauls. Granted if you drive for a few hours it will work but when using the van for short runs day in and day out day after day ith no long runs you will eventually kill the aux battery if you have any load normally on it. Found a sopping wet floor under the carpet while trying to run that wire and then the throttle pedal link popped off and had to dive under to remove the plastic cover to reinstall, found the four screws rusted to the point they needed drilled out. Ended up cleaning up that mess, dumping Krown oil all over the area and replacing the screws with nice big stainless ones. Still trying to get the floor matting and carpet dry and still use the van. PITA this winter weather.>>>>>>> <<<<<<<I chose the 1315 because it has the aux battery start option. Just need to run a wire from the Sure Power to the ignition switch wire that activates the starter. Big red and black wire coming from the ignition switch wiring connector if I remember correctly. Better check Bentley or do a test with a probe.>>>>>> <<<<<<David, I mounted the Sure Power unit on the floor of the aux battery box, as far to the RH side and in that small nook as possible. This gives plenty of room for the Optima to fit. I ran a number 4 gauge cable as recommend on the Sure Power install sheet from the main battery to the Sure Power under the van. Out the bottom of the main battery box along side the main wire and through the same grommet and then drilled and new hole in the floor of the aux battery box floor and used an appropriate sized grommet. Use caulking to seal up the space between the wires and the grommets if there are any. Used 4 gauge wire from the Sure Power to the aux battery and from the aux battery ground post to ground at the battery hold down bolt location. I did install the start option so ran a 14 gauge wire up to the start switch as described in the instructions. Depending on what kind of terminals you use on the aux battery they and all the wires leading too them my come very close to the seat swivel late when turning it round. Use a piece of heavy carborad as an interface to check. If it is too close you can remove the lip of the swivil plate in the area where it is too close. I did this and that solved the problem of turning the seat and having it short out on the battery positive post.>>>>>>> <<<<<<The stock relay is not needed if you want to connect your fridge to the aux battery directly. Just remove the relay. The wires coming to the relay from the front of the van; 12v power from the main battery, large red wire, this wire should now be used to send power to the front of the van to power the cabin lights, radio and any other circuits you want to run from the aux battery, You will need to trace this wire to its location on the back of the fuse relay block, disconnect it and then find the wires for the accessories you want to power by the aux battery then make a 10 or 15 amp (depending on the circuits you choose) fused connection between them and the big red wire. The other end of this wire at the aux battery box will now connect directly to the positive terminal of the aux battery. The other two wire coming from the front to the relay are the control wires that should now be used to control the Sure Power unit. I forget which colour does what but one becmes 12 v positive when the engine starts and the alternator light goes off. This is the 12v wire needed to activate the Sure Power unit at the positive position. The remaining third wire is a triggered ground from the front that should now be connected to the negative position on the Sure Power unit. The two red wires coming from the small fuse block behind the drivers seat are the positive power wires for the fridge, sink water pump and control panel on the sink/stove cabinet front. Both these wires should now be connected directly to your aux battery positive terminal if you want those function to operate off your aux battery. Hope I've been helpful and not confused you too much. Wiring is complex issue to describe and I hoe I've said it all right. You may need to consult the Bentley workshop manual wiring diagram for your particular Vanagon to make sure you know which wires do what before you make some mistake and case damage. I don't always remember and I ALWAYS go get my manual and look at the wiring diagram when doing these installs. Better safe than sorry !>>>>>>>>>

Cheers,

Frank Condelli Almonte, Ontario, Canada _BusFusion_ (http://members.aol.com/BusFusion/bfhome.htm) a VW Camper camping event, Almonte, ON, June 10 ~ 13, 2004 '87 Westy & Lionel Trains Member: _Vanagon List_ (http://www.vanagon.com/) , _LiMBO_ (http://www.bcn.net/~limbo/) , _IWCCC_ (http://www.westfalia.qc.ca/) & _CCVWC_ (http://www.ccvwc.ca/) Vanagon/Vanagon Westfalia Service in the Ottawa Valley _STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Mufflers_ (http://members.aol.com/ Fkc43/stebro.htm) _Frank Condelli & Associates_ (http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/busindex.html) or http://frankcondelli.com


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