Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:44:53 -0700
Reply-To: Ryan Mark Shankland <mark.shank@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Ryan Mark Shankland <mark.shank@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: User Friendly?? (was " you fixed it with what?!")
In-Reply-To: <6849335082507548A152A6D372E12BC5025BAA69@CNJ_EX1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I think Robert pretty much sums up the N. American position on diesels,
but the TDI, especially '99 on, and some better (quieter, less smoke)
mercedes engines are gathering steam, as well as the prospect or the
renewable local energy from soy or mustard seed (and a better smell).
I'm one of those noisy neighbors with an '83 suburban diesel which gets
21 MPG versus the 13 of its companions, I do have to be considerate but
feel a lot better driving it for work (this is to haul remodeling
supplies) than a gasser, and the biodiesel bumpersticker and use makes
me feel a lot better as well, especially living near Boulder.
I can't believe how many gasoline Jettas, Passats and Bugs I see in the
lots and driving around-- the additional cost would soon be made up in
mileage and longevity, but it also seems many Americans don't keep their
vehicles past 100K for whatever reason...
In essence it's going to be a slow change, but biodiesel won't look very
expensive this summer, and B20 is only as expensive here as mid or high
grade unleaded, so those of you driving TDIs try it out, and go to B100
when you can afford it (about 2.50/ gal here). Yes you have to know
where to find diesel and especially bio, but as I only have to fuel
every 600 miles it's not too hard to work it in.
Mark in Denver (87 hi-top too)
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of Andrew Gies
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:39 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: User Friendly?? (was " you fixed it with what?!")
Wow you have some VERY high maintenance neighbours!
The anti-diesel thing is strictly a North American phenomena. Diesels
are immensely popular in Europe and Australia - which have urban areas
just as dense, and more dense than in North America.
As for price, here where I live in Canada, diesel is usually 5 to 10
cents cheaper per litre than low grade unleaded.
I agree getting diesel on clothes or hands really sucks, but that is a
price I would be willing to pay for 30% or better economy.
As for real-world drivability - around town and on the highway,
pound-for-pound a VW TDI cannot be beat. It's happy to idle around in
traffic, or pass effortlessly without downshifting. I remember hearing
a saying somewhere that "you buy for the horsepower, but you drive with
the torque" - drive a newer model TDI and you'll understand why.
As soon as my waterboxer pukes, my Westy is getting a TDI transplant.
AG.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Keezer [mailto:warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:22 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: User Friendly?? (was " you fixed it with what?!")
For all the merits of Diesel, it has some big drawbacks still. I like
the economy and versatility(ie, veg oil etc.) However, it is not popular
here in the US for several reasons that have nothing to do with economy
or big oil conspiracy. I don't work for big oil, but if it wasn't for
"big oil", we wouldn't be having this discussion I might point out.
First, the fuel. It is not user friendly. It evaporates slowly and
stains permanently. So if you spill some on your shoes or dress you will
smell it all day .
Gasoline evaporates faster and yes, you will smell it a long time also
but the smell will wash out easier . The noise of Diesel. When I hear
Diesel pick-up truck coming down my street my first thought is where's
the fire? Some are as loud as firetrucks.
Diesels are noisy beasts though VW has made theirs relatively quiet.
Yet, when my sister's New Beetle TDI arrives here I can hear it out on
the street through double insulated STD 35 rated glass windows. I can't
hear the gas Jetta.
Since I work on my own vehicles ,if I had a Diesel here my neighbors
would be all over me just starting it up top run to the store after ten.
I can barely get away with idling a gas engine as it is now.
Not the kind of neighbor you can tell to "get used to it" either.
And finally the smell of exhaust-much more noticeable in Diesel than a
optimized air/fuel ratio FI gas engine. Your neighbors who have Diesel
engines that let them idle like they were
truckers- let's hear just how much you love them.
I bet you are like most of us- we don't like the noise and smell of
Diesel. Most of us(75 %) of Americans live in an urban /suburban area.
You on the farm will disagree.
Take this to the other choice of fuels, like veg oil.
Now what if your Diesel neighbors smell like McDonalds is next door, and
you don't eat hamburgers or French fries? You're a veg head or on a low
fat , low carb, low protein no fun diet?
Furthermore, Diesel is not very available here. Out of five local gas
stations near my house, only one has Diesel. And only one pump out of
ten for gas. Which means I have to waste that fuel mileage Diesel offers
looking for a pump.
Notice that I did'nt down the Diesel engine itself - just the affects.
Maybe this has more to do with why we don't like and drive Diesels. The
price of Diesel is'nt so hot either, and there is no guarantee it will
be any more affordable is the demand goes up.
And though the first Diesel was made by a German named Diesel, the first
automobile was invented by by a Frenchman named Cugnot.
And the steam engine no one wants to see make a come back -no matter
what the economy!
Your comments and opinions pro or con are welcomed.
Robert
1982 Westfalia
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: OBUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEGAUTFJMVRESKPNKMB
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: " you fixed it with what?!"
but america is about the only country in the world where we rely on
gasoline more so than diesel!--so that sounds alil fishy to me. I for
one am planning a tierra del fuego trip--and diesel is on my list of
wants for vehicle support (although it looks like the subi syncro is
gonna be the one). I'm a big bio-diesel advocate though. actually have
some friends over in india right now who are importing a diesel royal
enfield motorcycle if all goes well. diesel will run on what ever kind
of crap you put in em as long as there are no big particles flooating
around.
gotta remember rudolf diesel originally designed his motor to run on
peanut oil. for some strange reason he disappeared on his way to america
with his invention (think that is right). hmm--almost sounds like some
kind of oil company/government conspiracy dont it--better shut up now.
but yes--VW does frown on running bio-diesel or pure vegetable oil--they
dont ever really have to know do they? as much as i like bio-diesel--I'm
leaning more towards pour vege oil--all you do is dump it in and your
ready to roll
now--if we could just get the visions of really poorly designed 80's
american black smoke billowing diesels ou tof everyones heads and let
them see that diesels really can be clean burning machines. not much has
changed here--does anyone really need a 7.3L diesel to get grocery's
with?
ok--quiet now
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