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Date:         Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:34:15 -0800
Reply-To:     Tromper <tromper@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tromper <tromper@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bio-diesel in VW's
Comments: To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
In-Reply-To:  <AIEFIGCNNANNIHLNFBPEMEOALEAA.vanagon@volkswagen.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Waaay Back in the early stone-age, when I lived in the Glorious Peeples Republik of Minnesota (Land of 10000 Taxes) I had a big magnet with an electric heater built into it that you slapped on the bottom of your oil pan to make the oil viscous enough to pump in -40C (or -40F ;oD).

I've been wondering if that handy little gadget might not be a usable item for the Diesel fuel tank in less then subtropical environments.

Any thoughts??

Tromper 82 Dieselfant II Warm Balmy Pugetropolis - They just think the weather's bad and the taxes high here.

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf Of David Marshall Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:56 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Bio-diesel in VW's

I ran a 1.6TD Jetta last summer for about 10.000km on used Canola Oil, filtered to 10micron with a Fleetguard filter before pouring into the outboard motor tank in the trunk. I used a 30A 12V heater strapped to a big metal fuel filter in the engine compartment - it ran fine all summer. No coolant lines to mess around with, just the heater attached to the fuel filter and some 'bubble wrap tin foil' to keep the heat in the filter. When temps got below about 10C/50F the motor would start to miss a little, indicating that the Canola was too thick.

Often times, I forgot to switch back to Diesel before shutting off - on cool mornings between 5 and 10C it would be hard to start, two shots with the glow plugs and about 10 seconds of cranking would get it going with lots of smoke. Getting a boiling kettle of hot water and slowly pouring it over the injector pump would get you up and going in no time.

My plans are to make an aluminium tank for the truck that fits like a subwoofer box next to the rear seat that has a stainless steel or aluminum heat exchanger in it so that coolant can heat the veggie oil. The heater on the fuel filter will be there for auxiliary heating when the oil is below 60C to help bring it up to temp. I hope to be able to use this with straight veggie oil to about -10C once the vehicle and tank is up to operating temp. For temps colder than this kerosene or Diesel will be added to the canola to make it thinner. I will also have a tank for the Vanagon as well with a heater in it for WVO owners.

I personally don't like the idea of Bio-Diesel as some of the chemicals used to make it is very dangerous and you have an acidic waste product to get rid of. For me, I go to the restaurant about once a month and get 200L of their used oil. I let it sit for a week to get most of it to settle to the bottom. I have a washing machine motor attached to a Vanagon power steering pump that forces the WVO through a 10 micron filter. Over 10.000km I had to change my filter only once in the Jetta at a cost of $6. The sediment left over from he settling process is returned to the restaurant for proper recycling. To make this all worth while, it has to be simple, the straight veggie oil is very simple and doesn't take a lot of time to prepare.

David Marshall

Fast Forward Automotive Inc. 4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3

http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160

- Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions - Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation - European Lighting for most Volkswagen models

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-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Mark Shankland Sent: March 17, 2004 7:46 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Bio-diesel in VW's

The pure veg oil is frightening to me as if you forget to turn it off and clean out your system with your diesel tank it congeals when the engine cools-- the soy biodiesel I'm buying is rated to 0 degrees F at 20% and 20 degrees F for 100%, and the upcoming mustard seed is rated lower. Also it cleans the fuel system and produces fewer carcinogins.

Mark

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dodson Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:54 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Bio-diesel in VW's

I think a majority of diesel in Europe has at least 25% bio in it. (Euro listies, please correct me if I'm wrong) From what I understand, VW TDi's are certified to run on bio-diesel with the exception of US bio-diesel. The reason seems to be that some distributors of bio-diesel in the US think it's more profitable to water theirs down with rendered grease (animal fat), which they can get paid to take away from slaughter houses. This fat solidifies at a higher temp and thus renders the fuel useless in low temp areas. Can you say molasses? Humboldt State U's CCAT did tests on locally supplied bio-diesel and found rendered grease in it. Getting the bad stuff by accident can be a real turn off to those trying it out for the first time. Vehicle won't start if outside temp in under 45F. Diesel stabilizer helps but not enough to keep this junk flowing.

Though it depends somewhat on the type of plant the oil comes from, clean, refined bio-diesel with diesel stabilizer in it, should perform well in most climates form 20F-100F.

The problem with unrefined plant oil is that it doesn't burn as clean and produces nearly as much NOX as petrol-diesel. Yes it's a plant based fuel but dirty. The refining process does a lot for the emissions. There are no toxic byproducts of the refining process unless the batch is bad.

I don't know the story on how Rudy died but it wasn't long after his death that the oil companies had a market for a refinery byproduct that they previously were burning off.

Just think about the direction the world fuel economy might have taken if Diesel's plant fuel, had been successfully marketed. I wonder how many less wars might have been waged in the last century?

Admittedly, bio-diesel is not a perfect fuel but it is certainly a step in the right direction.

I'm burning bio-diesel in my generator and hope to be burning it my Vanagon by summer.

-Steven Dodson Kneeland, CA "Inga" the 87 Syncro

>but yes--VW does frown on running bio-diesel or pure vegetable >oil--they = dont ever really have to know do they? as much as i like >bio-diesel--I'm = leaning more towards pour vege oil--all you do is >dump it in and your = ready to roll


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