Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:34:15 -0800
Reply-To: Tromper <tromper@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tromper <tromper@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Bio-diesel in VW's
In-Reply-To: <AIEFIGCNNANNIHLNFBPEMEOALEAA.vanagon@volkswagen.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Waaay Back in the early stone-age, when I lived in the
Glorious Peeples Republik of Minnesota (Land of 10000 Taxes)
I had a big magnet with an electric heater built into it that
you slapped on the bottom of your oil pan to make the oil viscous
enough to pump in -40C (or -40F ;oD).
I've been wondering if that handy little gadget might not be a
usable item for the Diesel fuel tank in less then subtropical environments.
Any thoughts??
Tromper
82 Dieselfant II
Warm Balmy Pugetropolis - They just think the weather's bad and the taxes
high here.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of David Marshall
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:56 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Bio-diesel in VW's
I ran a 1.6TD Jetta last summer for about 10.000km on used Canola Oil,
filtered to 10micron with a Fleetguard filter before pouring into the
outboard motor tank in the trunk. I used a 30A 12V heater strapped to a big
metal fuel filter in the engine compartment - it ran fine all summer. No
coolant lines to mess around with, just the heater attached to the fuel
filter and some 'bubble wrap tin foil' to keep the heat in the filter. When
temps got below about 10C/50F the motor would start to miss a little,
indicating that the Canola was too thick.
Often times, I forgot to switch back to Diesel before shutting off - on cool
mornings between 5 and 10C it would be hard to start, two shots with the
glow plugs and about 10 seconds of cranking would get it going with lots of
smoke. Getting a boiling kettle of hot water and slowly pouring it over the
injector pump would get you up and going in no time.
My plans are to make an aluminium tank for the truck that fits like a
subwoofer box next to the rear seat that has a stainless steel or aluminum
heat exchanger in it so that coolant can heat the veggie oil. The heater on
the fuel filter will be there for auxiliary heating when the oil is below
60C to help bring it up to temp. I hope to be able to use this with
straight veggie oil to about -10C once the vehicle and tank is up to
operating temp. For temps colder than this kerosene or Diesel will be added
to the canola to make it thinner. I will also have a tank for the Vanagon
as well with a heater in it for WVO owners.
I personally don't like the idea of Bio-Diesel as some of the chemicals used
to make it is very dangerous and you have an acidic waste product to get rid
of. For me, I go to the restaurant about once a month and get 200L of their
used oil. I let it sit for a week to get most of it to settle to the
bottom. I have a washing machine motor attached to a Vanagon power steering
pump that forces the WVO through a 10 micron filter. Over 10.000km I had to
change my filter only once in the Jetta at a cost of $6. The sediment left
over from he settling process is returned to the restaurant for proper
recycling. To make this all worth while, it has to be simple, the straight
veggie oil is very simple and doesn't take a lot of time to prepare.
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
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-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Ryan Mark Shankland
Sent: March 17, 2004 7:46 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Bio-diesel in VW's
The pure veg oil is frightening to me as if you forget to turn it off
and clean out your system with your diesel tank it congeals when the
engine cools-- the soy biodiesel I'm buying is rated to 0 degrees F at
20% and 20 degrees F for 100%, and the upcoming mustard seed is rated
lower. Also it cleans the fuel system and produces fewer carcinogins.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Dodson
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:54 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Bio-diesel in VW's
I think a majority of diesel in Europe has at least 25% bio in it. (Euro
listies, please correct me if I'm wrong) From what I understand, VW
TDi's are certified to run on bio-diesel with the exception of US
bio-diesel. The reason seems to be that some distributors of bio-diesel
in the US think it's more profitable to water theirs down with rendered
grease (animal fat), which they can get paid to take away from slaughter
houses. This fat solidifies at a higher temp and thus renders the fuel
useless in low temp areas. Can you say molasses? Humboldt State U's CCAT
did tests on locally supplied bio-diesel and found rendered grease in
it. Getting the bad stuff by accident can be a real turn off to those
trying it out for the first time. Vehicle won't start if outside temp in
under 45F. Diesel stabilizer helps but not enough to keep this junk
flowing.
Though it depends somewhat on the type of plant the oil comes from,
clean, refined bio-diesel with diesel stabilizer in it, should perform
well in most climates form 20F-100F.
The problem with unrefined plant oil is that it doesn't burn as clean
and produces nearly as much NOX as petrol-diesel. Yes it's a plant based
fuel but dirty. The refining process does a lot for the emissions. There
are no toxic byproducts of the refining process unless the batch is bad.
I don't know the story on how Rudy died but it wasn't long after his
death that the oil companies had a market for a refinery byproduct that
they previously were burning off.
Just think about the direction the world fuel economy might have taken
if Diesel's plant fuel, had been successfully marketed. I wonder how
many less wars might have been waged in the last century?
Admittedly, bio-diesel is not a perfect fuel but it is certainly a step
in the right direction.
I'm burning bio-diesel in my generator and hope to be burning it my
Vanagon by summer.
-Steven Dodson
Kneeland, CA
"Inga" the 87 Syncro
>but yes--VW does frown on running bio-diesel or pure vegetable
>oil--they = dont ever really have to know do they? as much as i like
>bio-diesel--I'm = leaning more towards pour vege oil--all you do is
>dump it in and your = ready to roll
