Date:         Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:52:41 -0500
Reply-To:     Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject:      Re: 1980 Thermostat
Comments: To: Tom Young <tomyoung1@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

When you can stick your finger through #2 spark plug hole and feel that the
flap is all the way open ......... the flap on the other side is operating
in reverse and the flap is closed down over the air flow redirect portion of
the oil cooler sheet metal. At the half way point of #2's flap being open
fully the flap over the oil cooler is also about 1/2 way open.
The flap over the oil cooler cannot EVER stop air flow from getting to #4 or
#3 cylinder, the 3/4 air flow will always be 75% or more open. It's just
that when #2 is fully open (thermostat expanded) the redirect flap directs
more air over the oil cooler.
To fully realize this you need to have a air shroud on your work bench and
operate the flaps and then you can see that it is impossible to remove air
flow to 3/4 cylinders.

I can post a few pictures since I have a shroud with the flappers already
off an engine.

Stan Wilder



----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Young" <tomyoung1@comcast.net>
To: "Stan Wilder" <wilden1-1@sbcglobal.net>; <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Re: 1980 Thermostat


> Maybe we're speaking past one another, again.
>
> When the engine is cold the thermostat pulls the flaps, against the
pressure
> of the return spring, to what we'll call the "closed" position, minimizing
> cooling air to the engine.  As the engine warms up the thermostat expands
> and the return spring is allowed to "open" the flaps partially, allowing
> more air to the engine.  When the engine is completely warm the thermostat
> is fully expanded and the flaps are in their fully "open" position,
allowing
> the maximum amount of cooling air to the engine.
>
> The thermostat is designed to fail in its extended state allowing the
flaps
> to "default" to their fully open position via the action of the return
> spring.  This makes sense as it's safer to have a default position where
the
> engine receives maximum cooling vs. a position where the engine receives
the
> minimum amount of cooling.  So, I said "the default position is 'full
> cooling air to the engine' which is what you want if you have no
> thermostat."
>
> Are you saying it's better to run in 100 degree summer days with the flaps
> at the *opposite* of their default position?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Young                       '81 Vanagon
> Lafayette, CA 94549         '82 Westfalia
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stan Wilder" <wilden1-1@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Tom Young" <tomyoung1@COMCAST.NET>; <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:28 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: 1980 Thermostat
>
>
> > There can always be disputes but I run an oil temp gauge, a cylinder
head
> > temp gauge on #3 and an oil pressure gauge.
> > I've found that in Texas 100 degree summer days the full flow over the
oil
> > cooler is the cooler running engine with higher oil pressures.
> > Possibly other variables lead you to your conclusion.
> >
> > Stan Wilder
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Young" <tomyoung1@COMCAST.NET>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: 1980 Thermostat
> >
> >
> > > No, the default position is "full cooling air to the engine" which is
> what
> > > you want if you have no thermostat.  And California Imports is "out of
> > > stock" on these thermostats, as they always are.
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Tom Young                       '81 Vanagon
> > > Lafayette, CA 94549         '82 Westfalia
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jake Beaulieu" <jake_beaulieu@YAHOO.COM>
> > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:27 AM
> > > Subject: Re: 1980 Thermostat
> > >
> > >
> > > > The thermostat on my 1982 Westy is shot.  I removed it and simply
let
> > the
> > > cooling flaps spring back to their default position.  Stan, if I read
> your
> > > e-mail correctly it looks like you feel that it is better not to have
> the
> > > airflaps at the default position.  I sorda suspected this myself.  It
> > looks
> > > like at the default position the cooling flaps pretty well close off
the
> > oil
> > > cooler duct.  What position do you tie off your cooling flaps at?
> > > > By the way. I just received the catalog from California Imports
> > > (www.cip1.com) and they have a limited number of thermostats for the
> > 1980-83
> > > air cooled vanagons.  They are pricey, about $60 if memory serves
> > correctly.
> >