Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:36:36 -0700
Reply-To: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Easiest Platform to Convert to I-4 FROM?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
How dare you equivocate my posting as "silence"! Oh, Hi David-sorry, did'nt
see it was you!!!!!
I can't disagree with you but I can offer you or anyone else to drive my
Westy. One drive and you know it's OK to like the 51 degree angle. I have no
vibration or clutch problems.
Yes, it's more of a challenge to know the various twists and turns to arrive
at a completed conversion of the 51 variety, but some have argued that the
raised rear bed isn't practical for those like me who sleep with their head
at the rear. Sitting up must be fun with the raised bed.
However, if I did'nt have that preference or my Vanagon was a standard, I
might very well go with the adapter plate . It does make for a faster
install without a doubt.
And , in my case, I could have kept the 95 Golf engine intact with the head
and crossflow intake manifold , instead of swapping to to a 1.8 head.
So if i had a nice Carat or Wolfsburg, DOKa or such i most likely would do
the adaptor plate.
I used a KEP when I put a Audi 4-cyl into a 78 Bus. 15 degrees, and no lid
raising.
Had to use a flaaat air cleaner though-
Robert k
1982 Westfalia
----Original Message Follows----
From: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Reply-To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Easiest Platform to Convert to I-4 FROM?
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:14:49 -0700
OK... I'll break silence here! :)
I have driven several TDI Vanagons now, both 2WD and Syncro. Both a 15
degrees and 50 degrees. 50 degrees is how they do it in Europe as there is
a real abundance of used parts on the market there. I can honestly say that
the 15 degree setup is better. Two of my friends in Germany asked (begged!)
me to take my VAG-COM over so I could change the idle speed to reduce the
vibrations with their TDI setup. Both has mirror vibration and trim issues
at the 902 RPM stock idle setting. The amount of general noise transferred
to the interior was more on the 50 degree setup as well. Most of the 50
degree TDI owners are suffering clutch slippage with the 215mm clutch and
usually go with some wildly complicated mix and match of TDI/VR6 parts, with
the 15 degree setup you can use the stock 226mm clutch, heavy duty stock
(Sachs) or in my cost a the KEP Stage 1 clutch good for about 230ft.lbs of
torque. It is all hydraulic so clutch feel is the same and there is
definatly NO clutch slippage on my TDI! The other problem that I see with
the 50 degree stuff is it is all used, at least 20 years old and there are
several revisions of it out there so if you start to mix an match you run
into problems. A lot of the parts are no longer available from the dealer
so getting replacements is very hard and expensive. Unlike Europe we don't
have an abundance of Syncro fuel tanks to use the 50 degree setup here. In
fact, the Syncro 50 degree hangers are different so we really don't have a
good setup for the Syncro owners here in North America. For a nice, clean,
reliable conversion that works equally as well with a Syncro or 2WD I would
start with a 15 degree setup as it all new components as it has less
vibrations than the 50 degree setup, you do not have to chop your frame for
gasoline engines, more space on both sides of the motor for simpler intake
and exhaust configurations and the parts are always available.
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
- Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
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-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Eric Zeno
Sent: April 27, 2004 8:14 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Easiest Platform to Cnvert to I-4 FROM?
"Since this is all VW- it makes sense to use it. Only automatics need a
adapter plate."
This is just not true. A diesel bell housing will not
fit in a Syncro. You can replace the fuel tank to make it fit,
but in this case, anything will fit anything. It also will not
allow an inline to be install at any other angle other than 51 deg.,
unlike a KEP set up.
Rob, your clutch pressure plate and fylwheel is smaller
than the stock 2.1L engines. You think this is better?.
I think you better take back the personal preference part?
As for cost it my be cheaper. Definately better.
Eric
Robert Keezer wrote:
> Eric wrote:
>
> <<The "Best" way" is a KEP adapter. With this you get a bigger
> clutch. Diesel bell housing is only avaliable at 51 Deg. installation.
> unlike the KEP adapter. Air cooled tranaxle will do you not good.>>
>
> Ok- this is a just person's preference or a requirement if converting an
> automatic, not the "best "advice. The best advice is do what ever is most
> practical for you.
>
> There is nothing wrong with the Diesel type conversion- I have had one
> for 8
> years. The Diesel parts can be hard to find.
>
> What makes the Diesel style nice is it keeps the engine below the lid.
>
> The Diesel transaxle has a lower final drive which slows down the car
> so the
> trick is to bolt the bellhousing to your air-cooled or watercooled
> Vanagon
> transmission for better cruising rpm.
>
> All the inline-fours VW made til 1999 will bolt up to a Diesel Vanagon
> bellhousing.
>
> Since this is all VW- it makes sense to use it. Only automatics need a
> adapter plate.
>
> The air-cooled transmission has the best cruising final drive ratio
> for fule
> economy but if you need more torque, use a WBX trans.
>
> Bear in mind that there are a lot of details involved and no two can
> be done
> the same- there will be problems to solve specific to your
> installation that
> you can't read about.
>
> The basics for a Diesel type are: firewall clearancing, the swapping of
> parts from Diesel engine and trans to gas engine and trans,exhaust
> system,air intake, and the splicing in the engine harness .
>
> My first one took 3 months working a few hours a day and weekends.
>
> Currently running a '95 Golf 2.0 Motronic.
>
> Robert
>
> 1982 Westfalia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> T Berk wrote:
>
>> I understand it's the Diesel transaxle that makes it possible to use an
>> inline four block in Vanagons.
>>
>> With that in mind, is it any easier to start with an early air cooled or
>> later water cooled Vanagon and just adding the nessesary parts?
>>
>> Or is starting w/ a diesel Vanagon the best way to end up with a two
>> liter inline-4 block?
>>
>>
>> tia,
>> TBerk
>>
>>
>
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>
Robert
1982 Westfalia 1987 Wolfsburg
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